Could Sonny Liston have made it undefeated vs Louis title defenses?

Why on earth are you persisting on the theory that Joe Louis would defeat Muhammad Ali by body-punching ?
Ali,using your own words,survived Smokin'Joe's body-punching and so you declare this a route to defeat Ali.
A baffling lack of logic,even allowing for your dubious assertion that Joe Louis was a better body-puncher than
Joe Frazier.
As for the past-prime issue I highlighted it because of your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that Ali's
decline from his 1964-67 peak was a significant factor in his fights with Norton.On the other hand you qouted
Joe Frazier no longer being at his peak for the last 2 Ali fights.Talk about double-standards !
Another case of double-standards here.You dismiss the problems Holmes had with Witherspoon and Williams
as being '' hard fought vicories against difficult styles ''.How about extending the same courtesy for Ali in his fights with Norton ?
The fact that Muhammad Ali mercilessly toyed with a very competent 6' 6'' left-jab specialist in Ernie Terrell does give a clear signal that he would have coped with Lewis no matter what
purpose Lennox had in using his jab.
The fact that Ali ,with his usual adaptibility,managed to work out the southpaw stance of Mildenberger reinforces my argument that he would have done the same with Usyk.Yes even though Uysk is clearly superior to Mildenberger.
In fact this fight provides another telling example of Ali's ring IQ.

 

Liston also wins that fight if Leotis Martin doesn't land that punch. It would have still been the closest decision win of Listons career but the knockout was a fluke. Liston in 1969 was still better than Leotis Martin.

 

Such a fanboy response. Give me actual technical reasons for how and why Ali would win until you do its pointless to respond because you;ll just keep going back to Ali's speed and toughness as the ultimate gotcha and we're just going in circles

 

Tex Cobb could survive punches even better than Ali. So he beats Louis too, right?

 

Sonny has to stay focused, in shape, determined, busy and undefeated for 12 consecutive years … and out of jail/prison or else you’d better extend that 12 years for a few more.

I don’t see it.

 

REAL!

 

I was probably snarkier than I should've been, quite honestly.

But just because a guy can absorb punches really well, it doesn't mean that the punches don't matter. Or that they don't do damage. McCall took Lennox's punches so well he could drop his hands and taunt Lennox. Did that win McCall the fight? No.

 

But McCall didn't have anywhere near the level of sheer skill or other physicalities needed to defeat Lennox

Ali did

 

You think Ali is going to walk down Lennox? When has he ever done that to anyone who is as big and as skilled as Lennox?

 

The point of boxing is not to be hit.

If you're just planning to tank the shots and outslug Louis, OK, maybe. At least that's interesting. But Ali isn't bulletproof. The proper response to someone hitting you in the body isn't, "Meh, it'll be fine," and then just letting him do it.

 

Yeah but that KO punch wouldn't have felled a 1958-64 Liston

 

i never said that

 

I would favor a Liston prime with any opponent Louis has fought, including the ones he's lost to and even Louis himself. But Louis has been dominant for about a decade, he's been in great shape for about a decade and Liston has had a maximum of 4-5 years of great shape and has been a bit too inactive at times to be a sure thing. For some reason that's happened. So based on Sonny's career, you can expect him to lose at least one fight before those 10 years are up.

 

LOL ! Guess what ? Ali's speed and toughness would be a major factor in any fight.In fact a boxer's speed and toughness is rather important.As for technical reasons ? Ok,let's cut to the chase----in a real,actual fight who would land the more telling body-blows ? Joe Louis or Joe Frazier ? In a real,actual fight who would hit who the most-Ali or Holmes Remember this is the peak Ali of 1964-67 Ali that is being talked about.Not the faded version of the post 1960s Ali.
This is hardly the manifestation of ' fanboyism ' but rather a realistic appraisal of any fight
involving all of these great fighters.

 

If the level of understanding you have of boxing is just speed and toughness beats everything and you have 0 understanding of technique, then I'm sorry there's not much to discuss here