Could the 38 year old walcott who fought rocky win the belt in other eras?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Feb 8, 2018.


  1. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So every fighter is all of a sudden worthless after his first loss huh? Dumbass?

    Who's to say young wouldn't have just moved even more and engaged even less if Foreman had been more agressive, resulting in Foreman gassing out even earlier? Wasn't that the reason he Ali put him down, because he exerted himself too much early against a shelled up guy and gassed out? LOL only in crazyland is learning not to bumrush your opponent a detriment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    At 38 and at the tail end of a damaging career, he was? Really? Why didn't he keep at it for some additional paydays?
     
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    I figured youd pull moore, hopkins, and vitali to prove walcott somehow wasnt shopworn.

    Vitali was still beating up young prime contenders like chisora when he was past it. He wasnt dropping decisions to shopworn fighters or losing to the same guy 2x in a row (in fact he only had 2 losses to 2 ATG's, both controversial). Hopkins was still beating up prime belt holders like shumenov (whom he dropped and won a wide ud). Hopkins wasnt getting knocked out by skinny guys moving up a weight class. Moore only lost to the best hw of that era, an atg rockys, and a prodigy gold medalist patterson when he was well past ir.

    Look at the context and the record:

    -Walcott was 38. No matter what era, no matter how in shape, even if a fighter becomes a monk avoiding girls and alcohol, their body is NOT the same as 28 or even 33. This is a biological fact.

    -against rocky, walcott had lost 2 of his last 6, one of which was to a shopworn skinny charles who had bugun to suffer from the effects of ALS. The other was to Rex Layne who was pretty much the bonavena, tex cobb, shannon briggs of the era. A good but not so great contender limited slugger who usually came up short against the elite fighters of the era and never became the true champ.

    I dont see a PRIME Louis losing to the older shopworn charles and i definitely disagree that he would struggle with (let alone drop a decision) to Rex freaking Layne.

    He played hot potato with the title with charles back and forth, just like an old holyfield and ruiz in the early 2000's. Thats how bad the era was. Beating a shopworn skinny blown up light heavy in charles for the title, an ok hoff and a nobody weakling never was shkorr doesnt prove walcott wasnt well past it...especially since he retired after back to back losses to rocky. He technically shouldnt have even gotten a shot comsidering he fought charles coming off a loss, then lost to charles, then somehow got his shot again immediately after 2 back to back losses...and when you consider charles had already beaten walcott twice it makes it look even more perplexing, suspicious even.

    -Given all this info, it was already miraculous enough as it is that walcott even had the title. It was miraculous he still had the legs to avoid rocky and delay the inevtitable until the 13th. He had lost 16 fights and been KOed 4x BEFORE he even fought rocky. He was KOed in ONE ROUND in the rematch despite putting up a valiant effort previously.

    But he somehow wasnt shot. Ok, believe whatever the hell you want. I know you habe an agenda and i dont care if you want to have the last word.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    At HW, I extremely doubt it.

    I mean he could turn the trick against certain people at the right time, although I suppose that's all he did in his era.

    I favour him against very few prime champions but against faded guys he will always have a chance.

    The Holmes who lose to Spinks for example, the Lewis who lost to Rahman etc.

    At CW he could have dominated imo.
     
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  5. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    True and what the body lacked, Walcott and many other fighters known for longevity made up for it with experience and sills. I mean it should be very clear that Walcott at 38 wasn't nearly as worn down as Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Lennox Lewis, or most other fighters for that matter that fought past their prime into that age.

    I mean, Jack Johnson claimed he got better as he got older rather than regressing and I guess an argument could be made for that with his undefeated streak albeit against a bunch of nobodies after he lost to Willard.
     
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Probably because he ran into Marciano. “Why didn’t Klitschko keep at for some additional pay days” - it’s the same kind of thing, except of course Walcott was WAY younger than Klitschko.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    This is a very good point. Walcott was an extremely well preserved fighter. He always had talent, was always in excellent shape and fought as a spoiler for a lot of his career. Film stands up. It’s only people with an agenda against old timers that have an issue with him. Walcott was great. Sugar Ray Leonard is a huge fan of Walcott.
     
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  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Because anybody with two eyes could see that Wlad had lost a step and a half, that he was sliding into shot. Same as Walcott.
     
  9. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You missed Moorer, Old Foreman and Rahman all of whom I think he would beat. Also feel he could beat Tunney prime for prime I'd be confident in that however his older years not sure a pick em. Walcott is a very difficult style for Liston just look at the guys Liston struggled with. Additionally Walcott could beat the Evander that nearly had a heart attack against Moorer.
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's why Joe Louis did so badly after the first Schmeling fight.
     
  11. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    -i actually admitted a young foreman might lose to a cautious walcott who keeps his distance and follows a strict game plan, so obviously i give him a chance against the slow,old foreman. Either way he wouldnt be the favorite and could get taken out in any round.

    -moorer? What southpaws did walcott ever beat? Moore had high ring iq, lots of heart, and very respectable power. I dont see him beating moorer without any significant southpaw experience especially since moorer was trained by the astute student of the game atlas who had decades worth of experience and tons of data on the sweet science.

    -sure, he could outbox rahman for a few rounds but do u honestly think a prime rahman doesnt eventually stop him? A 2x champ who survived wars with tua, toney, holyfield, and KOed lennox lewis, he was a devastating hitter and game fighter. Very tough and strong with at least 30 lbs over walcott. At his best hed be a top 10 contender or belt holder in any era.

    -no, liston beats the stuffing out of him. He beat a prime eddie machen and zora folley and those guys werent slouches and ranked in the top 10. Its a myth liston had no way of dealing with movement/cagey cerebral fighters. He was like 36 if not 40 when he fought ali and either underestimated him or quit.

    -seriously? Youre going to use one of the WORST versions of holyfield to give walcott a chance?
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    It sure worked ok for Foreman all the way up to Ali. Lots of pressure also worked pretty good for Henry Armstrong, Mike Tyson, LaMotta, Frazier and Harry Greb to name a few out of thousands.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Well preserved Veteran fighters who are still winning at world level are often as hard to beat as when they were younger. Remember Bernard Hopkins?

    They might do things differently, compensate athleticism for experience, impose a greater economy of work rate then they previously had. Once a great older fighter (who can still beat world class fighters) is controlling the pace the advantage of youth can be vastly reduced.

    Maybe you can pick out moments of Joshua v Klitschko (with your two eyes) that demonstrate the step and a half lost where Wlad was sliding into shot? I think it Would be intresting and exciting for us to make these comparisons as well as explain your point.
     
  14. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    No ****ing way
     
  15. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    So this ****ing.idiot is saying that rahman would stop walcott but a prime foreman would not . you are a complete joke nerd.
    The holyfield that lost to moorer is his worst version why?because he lost? Using the vs moorer version of evander or the vs douglas version of tyson is exactly like using the jimmy young version of foreman.like i said you are cherry picking because you are a biased and ridiculous clown
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018