Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Jan 28, 2023.
Please discuss. Thank you.
Hagler didnt lose to Sugar Ray Leonard
Hagler only lost on the scorecards:
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and the CompuBox stats:
The final CompuBox stats showed Leonard landing 306 of 629 total punches (49%-52 per round) to 291 of 792 (37%-66 per round) for Hagler . Leonard landed 258 of 490 power punches (53%) to 213 of 581 (37%) for Hagler.
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What part of the fact that a boxer who won on the scorecards and outlanded his opponent and connected with the harder punches didn't lose the fight don't you understand? Oh, and please don't forget to vote. Thank you in advance.
Hagler was depleted but I think he's still too much for Floyd. Floyd doesn't have Ray's workrate, or punching power or showiness. Floyd could probably see the end but to win he needs to engage and I don't see him landing enough to either win on the cards or remotely hurt Hagler. Hagler on the other hand would sure be able to hurt Floyd.
I rewatched this and marked it a draw. However I could really only mark it either a draw or a Leonard (very narrow) win. I suspect I gave Hagler a few rounds that could easily have gone to Leonard. I would say I am more of a Hagler fan and my final view is Marv probably lost the fight rather than Leonard won it if that makes sense. But I definitely don't see it as controversial a score as Whitaker Vs Chavez. With respect I honestly don't know why you feel this is such an outrageous issue? It was a great fight, both made a ton of money and no-one in their right mind is going to think less of Marvin because of it. He is still a legend.
I think maybe he could. I am not a huge Floyd fan but I think it is certainly in the realms of possibilities. Mayweather isn't just some random chump. Middleweight would be a stretch but I certainly don't see him being steamrollered. Also Floyd was one of those guys who always seemed to have a plan, as Leonard did, and think several steps ahead of his opponent and his opponents team. He wouldn't take a fight like this lightly, his conditioning would be fantastic and he would not make the mistake of trading, it would be strictly pop pop pop and cover and move for 12 rounds. If we had the same judges as the Leonard fight then anything is possible!
PS I should add when I first saw it at the time I gave it to Hagler but again by a tiny margin. I rewatched it a while back and had Leonard winning comfortably and my final time had it a draw.
Here's my two cents for what it's worth. The fight was close. Usually the champ gets the benefit of the doubt. In the current instance Leonard was fighting not only the champ but expectations so he got the benefit of the doubt.
Yes he did lose a lot of it was his own dumb strategy. Still hes too much for Floyd Marvin is too big and strong and Floyd cant hurt him.
It’s unlikely but I’d give Floyd a chance. He was a lot faster than Hagler would have been at that point and had excellent defensive skills
I’d give Floyd a chance because Duran gave Hagler fits using a boxing quick-strike-and-out game plan and Hagler had a way of — not freezing exactly, but maybe overthinking and not pulling the trigger in big fights.
Duran called him a coward after that fight.
Hagler would come out fighting orthodox and doing stupid ****, blowing the early rounds like he did with Leonard even though Floyd didn’t usually turn it up in the early rounds.
He’d then try make up for lost ground by being aggressive, but against Leonard he moved in straight lines and didn’t use a lot of feints. Canelo tried to do the same thing late in the fight against Mayweather, but it didn’t work. It wouldn’t work for Hagler either.
8-4 or 7-5 for Mayweather.
How can you just assume that he’d have come out orthodox?
If Marvin had’ve engaged Floyd in a chess match, then Floyd would have had a chance.
But you’ve got to speculate on whether Marvin would have chosen that strategy, on a guy who’d come up from SFW, a guy who was faded with hand issues, and a guy who’d never fought at MW before.
Marvin didn’t even try boxing with Hearns. He’s said that he knew Tommy from their younger days, and he knew that he had a vulnerability which he could exploit. He knew that the right tactics were to jump on him straight away.
The big surprise was boxing against Duran, and not fighting him aggressively. That was a shock.
So again, would he have tried to box a master boxer in Floyd, or would he have pressured him aggressively from the outset?
Personally, despite the anomaly of the Duran fight, I think that he’d have fought Floyd aggressively.
You then also have to realistically think about how offensive Floyd would have been against an ATG MW when he’d never fought anybody at MW before.
IMHO, due to the actions that Floyd took during his career, he’d never have fought Marvin.
But which versions of Floyd are we picking here?
A hypothetical one?
Or the ones who actually fought at JMW, against Oscar, Cotto and Canelo?
Personally, I think that unless Marvin had employed completely the wrong tactics, he’d have won a decision by completely shutting down and nullifying Floyd’s offense.
Read the first sentence.
Answer: because it’s Hagler from the Leonard fight.