Could the Sullivan that fought McCormick have won the title when Jeffries retired?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, Aug 18, 2024.


  1. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    In a bizarre series of events, Sullivan decides to enter the title picture at the age of 46. His only feat at this age was knocking out journeyman Jim McCormick in 2 rounds in 1905, who went 18 rounds with Gus Ruhlin and 15 rounds with a green Jack Johnson.

    Could Sullivan have any chance against the likes of Burns, Hart, Root, O'Brien at this stage of his career?
     
  2. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey It came to me in a dream Full Member

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    No, he probably gets stopped by all of them. As I understand it (and I'm no expert), Sullivan's dominance came in thanks to him being larger than many of his opponents or being faster. At 46 I imagine his speed was very diminished and the only guy he would have a size advantage over is Tommy Burns because everybody was bigger than him.
     
  3. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Sullivan's dominance was due to a list of things, speed being a key part but skill and power also had a significant role. That said, this was when Sullivan was like 195 and at this stage he was 270 pounds when he KO'd McCormick.

    Still though, power is the last thing that goes and the old George carried his power at a similar age. There's no way his cardio was on the level it was though
     
  4. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Factor too how keen these men would be to defeat that name & have it on their ledger. I think he joins guys like Jeffries, Louis & Ali getting embarrassed at the last hurrah.
     
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  5. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Honestly if Sullivan were to have a last hurrah, the most dignified would've been against Fitzsimmons in 1898. Sure he's a bloated 38 year old by this point, but he always has that power and Fitzsimmons isn't unhittable nor unhurtable.

    Logically you must favour Bob, but it could've made for an exciting, short fight.
     
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  6. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey It came to me in a dream Full Member

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    I just think Sullivan was the first proper HW champ in a division where he mostly had to fight MWs. I don't think he'd cope with the size and his speed, conditioning, and ability to pull the trigger would all be greatly diminished. You don't lose your power necessarily but you do lose your trigger.
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I DONT THINK SO.
     
  8. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    To be fair, the division’s most skilled appeared to mainly be comprise of middleweights and light heavyweights until at least the 1910s. Sure there were great 185-200+ pound heavys before then but it wasn’t nearly as vast of a talent pool
     
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  9. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree ,especially if John L. puts down the whiskey bottle...
     
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  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Despite what he did to McCormick, I feel that he was too far gone at this point, to ever come back at the highest level.