Could Tunney really beat Frazier & Foreman?

Apart from the long count neither fight was close.

 

Gregorio Peralta hung with Foreman early in George's career. But the Norton-fight Foreman wipes Tunney out once Tunney is really forced to fight. Foreman just too big & powerful.

 

Yes.

The difference is that Tunney seems to have avoided them in principle, while in Loughran's case, it might just be how it panned out.

 

And you think it might have panned out this way why exactly ? No decent or available black fighters in the light heavyweight and heavyweight divisions in the 1920's to 1930's ? Over 120 fights and it just panned out ? More likely he chose to avoid them.

 

Frazier cut the ring too well and applied so much pressure 3 minutes of every round. It`s possible that Gene Tunney would win some of the early rounds but even in those rounds he will pay a toll. The toll would be Joe Frazier`s relentless body assault. If Tunney tries to protect his body that is when Frazier shifts the left hook to the chin and its over. I don't think Tunney would get past the 9th or 10th round at best.

Foreman was a stand up boxer who moved in fast as well. Tunney would have to fight a perfect fight against a monster giving away much size. The most likely scenario is that Gene gets Knocked out.

 

There doesn't appear to have been many black fighters that would fit the bill in that time scale ,but none in a resume of that size strains credulity.

 

I don't buy it at all .. longest of long shots. Not one in almost twenty years ?

 

Clearly there was never going to be another black heavyweight champ, just as by the 90's it was clear there would never be another white one, just as today it's clear there will never be another under 6'5" or 240 pounds.

Oh, and there's no difference between weather and climate either.

 

My first thought upon seeing this question was Tunney has little to no shot.

However....I decided to review Tunney on YouTube before posting.

Gene Tunney - 192 lb, 76 " reach

PROS - Outstanding jab thrown flatfooted or on the move. Uses it to maintain distance, or set up for his right hook thrown at a high angle to pass the left shoulder of orthodox stance opponents who duck his jab (ala Golovkin). His piston jab is his best weapon. Always aware of spacing, if crowded will open up at mid range with combo to head and body before clinching, or just clinch. He uses the clinch to push his opponent into desired reset locations, limiting their offensive options and bringing the fight back to the center of the ring. This tactic minimized being trapped In corners, ensuring his mobility was a constant asset. In all his footage he looks in tremendous shape, maintaining excellent work rate and movement throughout the fight.

CONS - Right hand held low is a liability against a left hook. Tunney's mobility and spacing prevented this from being exploited. Power is enough to garner respect, but clearly not a major asset.

All in all, a tremendous fighter with a style decades ahead of his time. Stamina, mobility, spacing, and keen analytical abilities make him along with Benny Leonard one of the best eye test fighters of the 20's.

FRAZIER - 206lbs , 73 " reach

Despite all this, I still have to make Tunney a long shot against 1969-1971 Frazier. Frazier would outweigh Tunney by +10 lbs. He would be the first fighter other than Greb Tunney fought with equal or better stamina. Frazier had fast feet for a swarmer, unlike the clearly past prime Dempsey in Tunney's two fights with the Mauler. Joe's left hook would be an ominous threat over Tunney' s low right guard at mid range when Joe slips past Tunney's jab and Tunney opens up with a combo. Unlike Dempsey in the Tunney fights, Joe would punch with Tunney to land his left hook. Tunney's pedestrian power won't dissuade Frazier from taking punishment to bring the fight to Tunney. I don't think Tunney can move Frazier in the clinches, and this fight would see more clinches than a Royce Gracie highlight reel. I don't think Tunney can keep Joe off for 15 rounds, and I see him getting stopped between the 8th and 10th rounds. Joe's power, foot speed, relentless aggression, stamina, underrated durability, and an ability to punch with his man, are all in all a nightmare package for Gene to face.

It's also worth noting Foster weighed 188lbs and Ellis (1st) 201 lbs in their fights with Joe, and they got annihilated. If we give Tunney modern nutrition and training to add 10lbs, I like his chances better, particularly in a rematch where Tunney can adjust.

Frazier 4 to 1 favorite.

FOREMAN - 220 lbs, 78.5 " reach

Foreman was perhaps the best heavyweight in history at cutting off the ring. His hands would be held out to parry or intercept opponent punches. Coupled with his frightening power this was intimidating as his hands were closer to his opponent than is usually the case at long range. If an opponent tried to clinch or close distance, Foreman would push them away with his prodigious strength, further intimidating his opponent. This pushing also served to unbalance opponents. Even the great Ali realized two rounds into his fight in Zaire that Foreman was too good at cutting off the ring, and resorted to lightning fast lead rights, masterful head control to create punching angles, countering over Foreman's pawing left hand, and of course, the rope-a-dope.

Foreman' s power was such, that a grazing punch would daze his opponent enough for the follow up punches. We see this repeatedly (Norton, Frazier, Moore). Foreman's chin was only really cracked by Lyle (the Ali and Young knockdowns were largely exhaustion). Foreman would wade through Tunney's jabs, shoving Tunney back to the ropes.

Tunney has no chance of dancing around Foreman. (He won't be facing the shell of the 74 Zaire monster Jimmy Young fought in 77.) He can, however, try to clinch and drag the fight into the mid rounds where he stands a far better chance than he would against Frazier...IF he can get there. Im not sure he can clinch that easily against the freakish strength Foreman possesses who would push him away, and even in a clinch Tunney won't budge Big George.

The question would be can Tunney get out of the landing craft, wade through the water, and make it across Omaha Beach? Possible, but not likely.

I give Tunney a better chance in a rematch.

Foreman 3.5 to 1

 

There is certainly no obvious black contender that he seems to have avoided.

It is perhaps more surprising that it didn't happen, while he was fighting at a low level in the sport, than it is that he did not come up against a name black fighter.

 

Two factors that might make it a more interesting contest would be the addition of rain (as in Philly when he beat Jack the first time) and the 10 round distance.

 

A 10 rounder certainly increases his chances against Foreman imo.
I think Fraziers got him either way.

 

Wouldn't a longer contest enhance his chances against Foreman?

 

There is the question of what you expect to get out of this?

You will never get unanimity.

If the majority of posters who tend to favor modern fighters, are prepared to favor an old timer in a thread like this, then I would consider that to be as good an endorsement of the old timer as I was likely to get!

 

I hear you. Here's my thinking;
Tunney will not KO him at any distance 15 rounds and under.
Foreman won't fade away against Tunney quite like he did with Ali, because Ali pulled a serious trick on George to make him spend energy. Tunneys gameplan is more straight forward, there will be no psychological games a la Ali, so Foreman won't be as wild.

Foreman conserves energy better against Tunney than with Ali, meaning Gene needs a tighter window to keep his speed and awareness full steam. A shorter fight means he can maximize his strengths on the outside without things getting doggy. The longer the fight, the better chance Foreman has to catch Tunney in the pocket. And since George will not be depleted, he will be a live threat at all times.

That's my thinking.