Could you make a case that Holmes was the hardest heavyweight to beat?

Well no one managed it in 48 fights over 12 years,till he lost a debatable decision at nearly 36, so yes ,you can make a solid case I think.

 

The one thing Holmes lacked was a really effective left hook.

 

This is very true, but a tad oversimplified. Yes, his winning streak and overall legacy is extremely impressive, which is precisely why I have him in my top 5. In terms of head to head matchups, he fairs pretty well there too. I'm not sure however, that we can proclaim him as the " hardest heavyweight to beat ". he had some very close calls with an aging Norton, unknown Weaver, Renaldo Snipes, and green versions of Witherspoon and Williams ( albeit past his best ). Not to regurgitate the same tired old rhetoric that has been said about Larry Holmes countless times before, but what his resume really lacks is a true archrival. The kind that Louis had in Schmeling and Walcott. The type that Ali had in Frazier, Norton and Foreman. The type that Holyfield had in Riddick Bowe, etc.. I really don't think Holmes ever had such a foe who could stretch him to the ultimate limit...

 

one key point many here fail to adress is how suscepitble to right hands larry holmes was, he was essentially a sucker for a good right hand throughout his career....this would cost him against many greats

 

This is true, but you also have to look at it from another angle. Holmes survived the right hands of many big punchers, ie. Shavers, Witherspoon, Weaver, Cooney, Mercer, etc, and still went on to win those fights. It would be another matter entirely if he were conquered on a regular basis in similar fashion to say the way that Wladimir Klitschko has lost on three occasions to the left hook. This is not the same case where Holmes is concerned. In fact, I think he would have overcome a lot of big right hands to win some very big fights.

 

And a great rival

 

:good

 

Look who you're resorting to though: Shavers, Witherspoon, Weaver, Cooney, Mercer. In the early to mid 70s the field was Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Lyle, Jimmy Young and Ken Norton. In fact Holmes succumbed to Michael Spinks who was a natural light-heavyweight.

Holmes had a super fight against Norton, but it hardly compares to Ali's trilogy with Frazier, knockout of Foreman, making Sonny Liston quit on his stool (first fight) or beating Norton twice while going the distance with Norton the first time with a broken jaw.

I think that in their primes Joe Frazier, Ali or Foreman could have beaten Holmes.

On the other hand, if Holmes really did have that same competition who knows what he would have accomplished. As I remember Holmes had to fight for years just to get his first title shot. I used to always see him in the top ten, but never saw him fight.

 

Agreed, but we're not really talking about the same thing here. The poster who I was responding to was pointing out that Holmes was suseptible to hard right hands. I in turn, rebuddled by listing some hard-hitting right handed fighters whom he beat after taking their best shots. Frazier was a lefty. Ali was a boxer not a puncher as was Young. They both might have beaten him, but not because of Holmes weakness to hard right hands. Norton might have beaten him in his prime due to stylistic reasons, but not because of punching ability. Foreman is the only big right handed puncher that you listed who coincides with what SuzieQ was talking about, and there is no guarantee that he would beat Holmes given his stamina and defensive problems during the 70's.

 

And a good body attack in his prime.

 

Due to styles and savy, yes, Larry Holmes and Jack Johnson would be the two toughest guys to beat at heavyweight..... Also, when properly focused and tuned, Lennox Lewis is in the mix as well......

MR.BILL:good

 

No you couldnt.

 

Well he did not throw much to the body, but certainly more than Ali.

 

In the entire 70's, Ali didn't throw a single body punch, but he used quite a bit of body punching in the 60's, which many people overlook. Sure, not a body destroyer like Duran or Tyson, but he mixed them up quite nicely during his prime.