Could Young Foreman absorb 90s blows as well as Old Foreman?

I guess, Lyle could have hit as hard. Imo i just think Cooney had more prolific power

 

He said Lyle, Cooney, and Williams were the 3 hardest hitters he faced in his career. But when asked who hit him the hardest he said Lyle

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Complain all you want, but you can't cherry pick which quotes you want. I am not suggesting Cooney was feather fisted, be obviously hit very hard.

Morrison was on his bike. You must have either not seen the fight or you don't remember things correctly. Morrison did not engage with Foreman for more than a few split seconds and immediately backed off or used lateral movement. He rarely planted his feet and put a lot of weight into his shots.

Lyle didn't just land "one" right hand. Him and Foreman landed multiple nuclear bombs on each other over and over. Where are you getting this idea he just landed one hit and Foreman was done? Did you watch the fight? And sometimes you are more weak to a certain punch than another. Foreman was trying to use a pawing jab after Gil Clancy changed his style and he kept getting nailed by Lyle's overhand right over his lazy jab.

If Morrison was circling around Foreman not engaging and using constant movement, no, I don't think he'd hurt 70's Foreman that much. Foreman ate hooks from Frazier, Norton, and Chuvalo and wasn't phased at all. A single occasional solid hook every couple of rounds from Morrison is not going to make Foreman fall apart. Especially if he isn't gassed.

 

There isn't anything heretical or impish about any of those claims.

There's a difference between being a hard puncher and an effective puncher. In terms of just raw hitting power, I doubt Lyle is in a league of his own compared to Morrison, Briggs, etc. But some of his punching mechanics are better.

For starters, Lyle was jacked like a lot of the 90's guys, but he did good old fashioned prison exercises like push ups, pull ups, etc and kept his body flexible. Flexibility is extremely important to be an explosive hitter with good weight transfer.

Then there's stamina and fluidity. Lyle had old school trainers who didn't see him as a video game character you could just dump power ups into (peds, nutrients, etc) like Morrison or Briggs who were obviously on a lot of stuff. Some of the 90's guys certainly look impressive, but their bulky muscles sometimes got in the way of their punching mechanics while simultaneously making their stamina worse overall. Lyle could go the distance no problem and won clear decisions over rated fighters. Other than Hoylfield, most of Foreman's muscle bound 90's opponents were not known for this.

Another factor is attitude. Some of the 90's sluggers looked great hammering away at a heavy bag or a stationary tomato can, but sometimes struggled with opponents who had an ounce of ring IQ. Lyle did not have the mentality of simply bowling over every opponent treating them like bowling pins. He could actually set up shots. He could pivot, shift weight, alternate between head and body, didn't just swing for the fences when he had the opponent hurt (look at how he broke Shavers down like a sadistic jungle cat picking his shots and landing blows through the gaps in the guard), would actually set up combinations with a jab, could double up on his jab, could counter, threw plenty of body shots, one of the few guys to throw sneaky left uppercuts. All this praise for a guy who was basically upper B level in his era and never won a belt. He was a far more effective hitter than muscle heads like Morrison, Briggs, or Stewart.

 

Nobodies cherry picking quotes. He also said Cooney was the hardest hitter he's ever been in the ring with when discussing that fight

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I didn't know of the interview you showed however.

Seen both full fights. Lyle landed shots but it was just 1 big right hand that had him clinging on in round 1. Also on your bike and jabbing most of the fight ≠ you can't plant your feet, throw combinations in spots and get back on your bike. I dont want to timestanp every single time Morrison did this in the fight so you can just watch the highlights.

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In the very interview you posted, he mentions that when you face a genuine puncher you have to get them out of there and to not mess around. Which is what he did. Cooney got blasted out very quickly. Lyle on the other hand, stood there and traded with Foreman for several rounds. The obvious take away from these events is that Foreman became wiser as he got older and was no longer willing to stand there slugging with a guy who hit hard as hell. Pretty simple explanation.

The actual knockdowns are what are important to me. Lyle landed multiple blows on Foreman who was off balance and in the middle of throwing his own punches when Lyle knocked him down. Him getting rocked by a guy who hits hard isn't a bad thing. Boxing fans will say a guy's durability is questionable if they get rocked even when the opponent hits hard which is weird because how else are you going to be able to tell if someone hits hard unless they can rock opponents? Lyle has other fights where he heavily drops an opponent with a single right hand.

I didn't say Morrison never planted his feet or never once managed to land a flush shot. I said he spent the majority of the fight moving around which is an observable fact. You're acting as if Foreman just stood there getting blasted by flush bombs in the face for 12 rounds. I don't need any time stamps. If Morrison fought that way against 70's Foreman I would have absolutely no reason to doubt Foreman could take those same shots. Morrison was terrified.

 

I dont think his chin was questionable. I just think 1990 Foreman could take a huge punch better

Morrison would've been knocked out but hypothetically speaking if the all of the same huge shots Morrison landed when he stood and threw against 1990 Foreman landed on 1970s Foreman i believe young Foreman would've gotten stunned at some point. I dont think he would've eaten all of those shots and kept marching Foreward like old Foreman did. Morrison was on the backfoot most of the fight but he set his feet quite a bit and unloaded big single shots and combinations into Foreman. Thats just me though

 

I think you're really overlooking 90's Foreman's improvements in defense and how he paced himself to preserve energy. 70's Foreman was a seek and destroy slugger and defense was an after thought. 90's Foreman was more of a boxer puncher who tucked his chin, always alert, and held a tight guard when his opponent hit him back.

Your chin isn't going to improve after a 10 year layoff and launching a comeback in your 40's. Never happened once in the history of combat sports.

Well I agree but for completely different reasons. You believe it's because old Foreman could take a shot better. I think 70's Foreman would get stunned at some point simply because he was much more reckless and aggressive. Again, you're acting as if 90's Foreman was some punching bag who constantly moved forward and just ate bombs all night.

 

Well 10 year layoffs usually don't happen. I do think Foreman did pace himself better and implemented better armed defense but i also think he could take a punch better.

Maybe you're right and it isn't the extra 30 pounds but it could be because Foreman wasn't being forced to cut weight later in his career and that bettered his punch resistance. Or maybe the style change had everything to do with it. Just something to think about

 

Why people focus only on Lyle fight? Ron isn't the only puncher Foreman fought in his first career.

 

I tend to agree with this. And also I think that the extra weight really did help him absorb punches better. I mean some of the shots Holyfield landed were blistering combinations and Foreman ate them all. Morrison, Briggs ... all big punchers. Jimmy Young would have chipped away all night at Old Foreman without result. Another point to consider is that 70s Foreman was very aggressive and often when he was caught he was moving into the shot, amplifying it. Old man Foreman was rarely if ever caught out leaning in.

 

Well if you enter the ring dehydrated before the bell rings, and you fight in a hot muggy outdoor ring, and you fight very aggressively and don't pace yourself well, the vast majority of fighters would get stopped after eating dozens of shots all night.

It's not rocket science and it's frequently overlooked. Show me a fighter who has those conditions and goes the distance no problem without being rocked or knocked down.

 

You can if you want to since that's how he often entered the ring. The risk/reward is that he'll have limited stamina but whoever is opposite of him will be facing a very grumpy, hungry guy who just wants to get the fight over with so he can eat burgers.