Couldn't possibly have existed how they are.

Thanks for this extremely informative reply. I feel it makes so much sense and confirms much of what I have always suspected. These modern fighters, good as they are, could not really exist in quite the same form if they existed in the past alongside fighters of the golden era. And it is a legitimate point to say so.

There is evidence good fighters literally went to the shops and bought “functional size” over the counter. Without it they could never be the same.

 

Well, I agree.

But on the other side of the arguments, there's always similar moving of goalposts when people deny that a huge fighter from the past possessed any boxing skill and ability and prowess whatsoever.
So, the argument goes "yeah, okay, X from 1940s might have been 6'5 and 245 pounds but he had zero boxing skill ! So it doesn't count." ..... "oh, look, he's huge but clumsy !" ...... "I have fifty amateur guys at my gym, even my best bantamweights, and they'd destroy him easily .... "
etc.
etc.

which is equally dumb, of course.

 

Why not just type "He would win" though ?

 

I knew that. https://imgur.com/gallery/CrWqu

 

The problem with low iq posts like this is it fails to take into account the first hundred years of boxing. Which was not dominated by shws. Where were all these SHWs? They existed and can be pointed out in every decade yet they failed to dominate their smaller opponents. With a few exceptions of Willard and Carnera rising to the top for a short while. The majority of that century was dominated by men 190-215 pounds. Men that weight don’t fight Hw today they fight at cruiser. So we really don’t know how they’d fair today. But since cruiser was created there is evidence that those men can compete and just fine. Evidence meaning men moved up in weight to challenge for an alphabet title or just competed in general. Holyfield, Toney, Byrd, Spinx, Jones jr, we’re all lower weights some as low as mw. Some guys 6”2 and under like Chagaev, Tua, Rahman, Povetkin, Chambers, Ruiz (both) etc were all very competitive even till today. There is zero proof men of yesteryear couldn’t compete yet I see no actual proof these giants would be as competitive without the use of PEDS and steroids. Wlad and Lewis I hold in high regards because of their skill set. Not their size. Their size fits into their skill set much like Marciano, Tyson and Frazier’s size fit into their respective skill sets. If your theory is true I’ll wait patiently for your answer as to why the bigger stronger men of yesteryear didn’t dominate when we all know they were around.

 

Depends on the fighters in question, rather than the laws of physics.

The laws of physics probably favour the guys who say Marciano could knock anyone out clean if he landed his best punch on their chin and the right moment. If you want to get technical.
Of course that's a different to the argument of likely winning or losing a particular fight.

But the laws of physics .... which laws ? We know lighter men can KO heavier men, and we know lighter men can survive punches from heavier men, and I bet there are dozens of current fights that can be made right now at heavyweight where you'd favour the lighter man.
So, heavier and lighter being physical facts, doesn't dictate who wins and loses a boxing match.
Yet just about everyone recognizes weight as an advantage.
So I guess all reasonable disagreements centre around how good we rate the specific fighters being matched. And, of course, styles make fights.

 

What defines a "lumbering oaf" though ?
I watched Tyson Fury's whole career since he turned professional, and he certainly had a oafish aspect to him from day one, and he still can look oafish at times, but he's actually an excellent boxer. It's just his size and the way he's built.

I'm not saying "Exhibit A : 1930s Heavyweight Oaf" is as good as Tyson Fury, but I do believe some of those old-timer giants are overly scrutinized for superficial 'unaesthetics'.

 

Because of diet and living standards American people had towered above the rest of the world for decades.... yet it only took until the steroid era for giants to finally take over boxing. They had been around all along!

The difference was that under the limitations of the training and diet until quite recently there used to be limits. A trade off between strength, speed and performance.

For generations speed suffered, stamina suffered and fighters ceased to be effective if a fighters weight was not finely controlled. A fighters age used to come into it. Now older fighters go on and on...even average ones.
In earlier times, Fighters like the Klitchkos might not have been viable at all since it took until the steroid era for that type of fighter to become relevant. And it has nothing to do with numbers or people getting bigger all by themselves.

it has more to do with the modern advances of being able to keep the biggest men fit, strong and injury free enough to make it as a top fighter.

 

Have you seen what super heavyweights used to look like without steroids though?

There are very few exceptions admittedly, but without “modern help” those gangly guys used to be as limited in boxing as the obese fighters also used to be.

 

I thought the legitimate knock on Rocky Marciano was that he never beat huge guys, or even standard big heavyweights, who were rated or prime in his time.
So .... there's little firm evidence that he could.

 

Fair point. All his contemporaries certainly did.

 

Lewis may be the best H2h of everyone at his best. I don’t take issue with anyone saying that. I take issue with posters whom think anyone from the past couldn’t possibly compete with these people. It’s an absurd thought that doesn’t hold up historically or factually. Wlad I don’t think much of and wouldn’t be shocked if marciano won that one. Depends on the ref to be honest. If Wlad is allowed to hold like he did against Povetkin he probably wins otherwise I’d pick Marciano to KO him most likely w a left hook. He would only have a punchers chance against Lewis imo. You still haven’t answered my question. How come the shws didn’t dominate the day years ago? By your logic they should have. Plenty of big men with skill. Why couldn’t they dominate the little fellows of the day.