Cracking the MW Top 10

For me it's the resume and that's unfortunate. He has no control who was around in his era and no control over who avoided him. For some around here they will conveniently look the other way for fighters that had the same issue with weaker era's but are on G like a wet blanket.
He passes the eye test for me. I have him at 15. Let's see when he retires then we'll have a better idea.

 

Great post, this. ^ By the eye test I don't seem him any less a fighter than even some of the greats. If he'd had Sturm, Martinez, Cotto and maybe Froch on it I don't think there would be so much argument.

 

Agree..He beats them all IMO...Froch ran his mouth for a while then put his tail between his legs and shut his big trap up. He knew the score.

 

He can't get there, and asking him to beat Canelo,again, Jacobs again and Charlo when he's already 36 is a bridge too far. He'll probably retire after this fight, there's nothing left to prove

 

Here's the problem...

- A resume being thin, due to a weak era, is one thing.
- Having not faced a genuine world class opponent, until it was well, well late in the day, is another.
- Having failed to convince against those genuine world class opponents is the straw.

Mitigating circumstances do not change the fact that this is what has happened with Golovkin.

We can take the same approach to other highly rated Champs of the past and not be able to reasonably apply both the second and third points above to them.

The eye test doesn't get you brownie points in the ATG stakes, in my book.

In answering the question, whilst wins over Alvarez, Jacobs, Saunders and Charlo would help his case greatly, the manner of victory will play a big part in determining how heavily the wins are weighted for a rating. In any event, I can't, right now, see him making the top-10 on the strength of those yet to be tallied wins.

 

That will probably be enough for some people. I doubt it would be enough, for mine. Although, I'll be waiting until all the results are in and the dust settles, before reviewing and contemplating the question fully.

 

The Middleweights have over 100 years on the Super Middleweight division, making it difficult to form a meaningful comparison, in terms of rankings. Nonetheless, Calzaghe beat Eubank and Reid, early on, and despite a lack of recognition, did beat a solid bunch of names.

Kessler is probably a Top-10 ATG Super Middleweight (as is Eubank) and Calzaghe, at 35, won a comfortable UD from the undefeated titleholder. The utter dismantling of Lacy, despite his 'status' being overblown, was entirely unexpected and a shocking beatdown.

Calzaghe capped his career by going up a division and getting a couple of wins against recognizable names, which I think helps underpin his SMW credentials.

When it comes to ratings, the fights that actually happened count; not those that one wishes did, but didn't. The two boxers you mention would have hardly made a difference to Golovkin's standing, in my opinion.

Wlad's ranking is not exceptional, considering his longevity - and, his position in the ATG listings is questionable. That said, he pretty much fought the best available (other than his brother), until he couldn't do it anymore, even if the talent pool was shallower than a sidewalk puddle on the hottest day of the year.

If you're referring to Ryota Murata then... ...I really don't know what to say.

 

Jacobs losing to Dervanchenko won't do Golovkin's resume any favours and losing the rematch to Canelo will make it harder for anybody arguing his greatness.

True authentic ATG level fighters mostly always overturn a disputed decision with a dominant performance.

 

Little, I suspect. But, it wouldn't hurt.

 

The underlined defies comment.

 

Calzaghe had just 15 of his46 fights in Cardiff.lol

 

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to argue here. I'm not seeking to debate the relative merits of Joe Calzaghe.

Super Middleweight is a young division; nowhere near as deep as the Middleweights. That was the crux of what I was explaining. And, this is probably why Eubank and Kessler are no doubt considered Top-10 ATG Super Middleweights.

Therefore, in ATG Super Middleweight terms, Calzaghe beat two All-time Greats. Does that make sense?


Re Murata - he is a 14-1 paper champ and I am not sure he adds too much to any middleweight champion's legacy, right now. However, I do take your point about Charlo and perhaps it would be better if these guys fought each other, along with Andrade and Derevyanchenko.

Saunders has shown consistently good form, of late; both Canelo and Jacobs have seemingly unfinished business with Golovkin. I think these three represent the only major players in the division, at present.

I don't have too much to say about the Klitschko's, to be honest, as far a Top-10 ATG Middleweights go.