Crawford vs the Four Kings

Boxing fans are the only group of fans who passionately believe that older greats are automatically better than the more current greats of today. When all of the sports science and evolution of athletes over the generations, for some reason when it comes to boxing, no matter who they beat or what they accomplish, they aren't better than the "golden era" of competitors or whatever.

Hold this conversation with basketball, football, track and field, soccer supporting fans, you get more logical conversations because they take into account that people physically evolve from generation to generation for simple fact that the sports science, training, nutrition, etc....surrounding being an athlete has enhanced and is available to athletes much younger in their careers than they once were.

Guys like Michael Jordan are still marveled as being ATGs in their sport, but it's not hard for NBA fans to give credit to the athleticism that is more common in today's game than it was in MJ's era. MJ was a freak athlete, no doubt, and there were others, but it doesn't keep people anointing Lebron James, Ja Morant, Kobe Bryant, etc as just as good an athlete. .......Guys like Tom Brady is not put down when compared to the Joe Montana's, Terry Bradshaw's, or John Elway's of the sport.

Crawford is THE FIRST male to become a 2 division Undisputed Champion. 10x world champion. 4 division world champion. 2x Fighter of the Year. 2x ESPY Award Winner. 3x Lineal Champ. He has defeated 11 world champions during his career. 5 of them were undefeated going into the contest. 2 of them were ranked in the top 5 p4p by The Ring Magazine the night of the fight.

Since 2014, the year Crawford won his first world title off Ricky Burns......his opponents he has face have a COMBINED record 499-34-8 record. That record includes those 11 world champs he's faced.

With those things that I pointed out being FACTUAL, not opinion based, boxing fans (at least in these forums) find it hard to give Crawford a positive review on whether or not he would be able to compete against the 4 kings. Clearly none of us will ever know for sure for obvious reasons, but Crawford's skillset qualifies him to compete in the ring vs any welterweight of any era. His combination of IQ, quickness, counter punching, strength, & mentality puts him right up there with Sugar, Marvelous, Hitman, & No Mas...

Saying Crawford hasn't fought any "ATGs" as a reason for discrediting him is silly. Reason being is because, I ask one specific question and those who argue it have yet to answer it. And that is......"Who is it that Crawford was suppose to fight at 135/40/47 that would give you the platform to respect his resume?"........ Crawford has consistently been gunning for the top guy in the division. He moved up from 135 to 140 with eyes on champions. Guys like Adrien Broner & Danny Garcia jumped to the next division when they could have easily shared the ring with the young up and comer. After becoming undisputed at 140, he went up to a division they claimed he was "too small for" and dog walked a man who went 12 rounds with Manny Pacquaio and walked away with his title. Crawford then stopped ever opponent he faced at the division. Names like Danny Garcia, Mikey Garcia, Keith Thurman, Shawn Porter, & Errol Spence Jr. all came up with excuses/reasons why Crawford didn't deserve to be in the ring with them only for one (Porter) to be mandated and another just being the last man standing (Spence) when all else was behind them. Manny demanded $40M to fight Crawford, during the pandemic while no audience was allowed in the arena. Then, after becoming undisputed for a second time.... Crawford moves up to 154lbs to challenge the title holders of that division. Fights a man that was promoted to be the biggest most athletic opponent Crawford has ever faced, and that guy didn't even want to exchange with the smaller Crawford. He didn't throw a single combination until the 7th round. And was hurt 4 different times from the 8th round to the 12th. But those who aren't fans of Crawford try to argue that Madrimov was "Green" or that he arguably beat Crawford....lol.

And the end of the day Crawford's skillset has found a way for him to look like he is head and shoulders better than his competition regardless of what type of animal they were promoted to be going into the fight. From Gamboa, to Prescott, to Postol, to Horn, to Khan, to Brook, to Porter, to Spence, to Madrimov.......all were supposed to provide some weapon that exposes and ends Crawfords run/streak of wins, only to be handled in the ring and excuses as to why Crawford was so successful immediately follow.

Crawford would be able to compete vs any of the 4 kings along with Sweet P, Floyd, Manny, Oscar, Hatton, etc..... Would he beat any of them, we'll never know. But it's bout time we stop trying to discredit these gladiators just because your favorite Man is retired and marveled in history. Clearly, the Sport respect Crawford as much as any of the greats as the Hall of Fame ceremony in 2021, Crawford's fist was engraved along with the inductees of that year. Making him the first and only ACTIVE fighter to go through that process. That is the ultimate respect from his sport. He put his life on the line as much as Ray, Tommy, Marv, & Berto.....he doesn't have to be your favorite. You don't have to think he beats all or any of them, but putting down like he doesn't belong in the same glory because you don't respect the names on his resume........ He beat the field in front of him. He's not required to do anything other than that.

 

Listen, stop saying Errol Spence at any point in his career was top 5 "P4P", he never was. I get that you're a massive Crawford fan so I won't bother addressing the rest.

As for your comments regarding boxing fans and their rose tinted lenses when looking at the past, you're more wrong than you are right on this one, as there is no comparison between the noble art and shooting hoops.

Also what was this Madrimov domination you elude to? I didn't see Crawford dominate Madrimov, I saw him get tagged with heavy shots while he ran the entire fight from a gunshy Madrimov, I have Tim Tszyu brutally KOing the 154lbs Crawford that fought Madrimov, you talk like Crawford dominated Madrimov in a Canelo vs Bivol style performance which couldn't be further from the truth.

P4P is when you give up size advantages to beat a bigger men, Crawford has been abusing his ape build with 72 inch reach to bully little kids since he debuted, don't ever compare him to Duran in this regard who is one of the most spirited, meanest, p4p macho boxers there's ever been, on top of being an ATG and absolute monster head-to-head at LW

 

In a resume contest, Crawford loses. In actual bouts it would likely be closer and depend a bit of which versions of each of the 4 he faced.

 

The question is really what would the four kings have been if they didn’t have the other three kings to compete against and push themselves against.
In any sport it’s the competition that pushes you to be the best you can be, this is more applicable in combat sports.
In boxing the opponent can push you to the limit and bring the best out of you and your capabilities and in this case you can say the four kings were blessed.
Crawford hasn’t had that and that’s why it’s not a fair comparison, but for me it’s clear that he is something special and I think if he had the same benefit of having such elite level talent to compete with then he would have found levels we haven’t seen from him.
I think he would have done well competing with them but unfortunately for him he hasn’t had that privilege.

 

No you listen. Don't tell me what the ..... I can say boy. I'm not the one who SAID he was top 5 p4p. I said he was RANKED top 5 p4p by the Ring Magazine. The same Ring Magazine that ranked the 4 Kings, Floyd, Manny, Trinidad, Cotto, etc.... Don't try to give me your definition of pound for pound like you are about to educate me. Especially when your definition is as clueless as what you just quoted. Crawford started his pro career at 135....why because as an amateur he competed as a lightweight in the amateurs....(132lbs). He was never a really big guy. His arm reach being a reason that he isn't pound for pound is the dumbest logic I've heard. P4P is your skillset matched up with the rest of the field regardless of the division you compete in. Miss me with that B.S. about Duran being mean and Crawford can't be compared. Obviously, he can be compared, because not once will you find Crawford putting himself in talks with the 4 Kings.......fans and critics do that because he displays a mean streak himself as one of the best finishers in the sport today. Even greats like James Toney, Mike Tyson, Antonio Tarver, etc.....have expressed their respect to how he approaches his fights.

I'm a boxing fan and Crawford is a legit talent so I'm a fan of what he does in the ring. You can't address anything I said because you want to lean on your emotions and opinion. I didn't state anything that can't be found on a timeline. You want to lean on scenarios and things you THINK would happen.

I also addressed Crawford's dominance throughout his career, NOT THE MADRIMOV FIGHT. You need to work on your comprehension before jumping 2 feet into a debate. Crawford got hit with clean right hands by Madrimov.....and instead of you giving him a kudos to his chin, you want to make it seem like that was the deciding point. There wasn't a single shot that cause Crawford to go on the back foot. Madrimov did nothing but feint for 7 rounds straight, throwing a punch from time to time only to get countered repeatedly. Please inform me on what round Madrimov had Crawford on the run.... Was it the 8th round in which Crawford blasted him in between his wide hook and damn near crumbled him second half of the round. Was he running in the 10th in which the counter uppercut followed with a straight and hook put Madrimov in the ropes or when Crawford landed a clean punch right after getting caught with a clean punch and had Madrimov stepping away gingerly. Was it in the 12th, when Madrimov was made to pay for being overly aggressive and was caught with an overhand that made him retreat..... Please let me know when it was that Crawford was "running" from Madrimov. The man who wouldn't even engage for most of the fight.

I have the fight cued up here in the gym office. I'm ready. Let's break down the fight round by round.......I want to see exactly just how much you understand about what's going on inside the ring.

 

Tszyu/Madrimov would be a cracking fight.

 

You said Errol Spence was top 5 P4P, what do I care for your little games in semantics now? What do I care for some institutions ranking? I can rank a fighter myself

You have to be kidding yourself, Crawford didn't engage as much as Madrimov, I already said Madrimov was gunshy, Crawford on the other hand was running all night from a guy throwing NOTHING

The funniest part is we don't have to do nothing, I know for a fact Crawford won't be going anywhere near Tszyu, he even ducked Fundora. He wants that Canelo payday and that's it

In which round did Crawford ran from Madrimov? Try the first round through the twelve, from a GUNSHY Madrimov who like you said did nothing for 80% of the fight except feign and feign. It was the most boring crappiest fight of the year for a reason, a fight nobody wants to even remember

 

Nice to see some common sense on here. It’s amazing how the bar has been lowered so much in recent years by fans when it comes to labelling fighters “great”.

 

No clue. Too many unknowns in regard to Crawford. Crawford hasn't fought anyone with a longer reach than him(Hearns). He hasn't dealt with anyone his size with speed and power(Sugar Ray Leonard). He hasn't fought anyone who was an educated pressure fighter(Duran). He hasn't fought someone with all around skills where he was at a size disadvantage(Hagler). That doesn't mean Crawford would lose because we have seen countless times in history of fighters who didn't have the resume but won. Who did Ali beat that made anyone believe he would beat Liston? Who did Benitez beat that would make anyone believe he would beat Cervantes? Who did Duran beat that was near a Sugar Ray Leonard? Even in recent times, who did Teofimo beat that made people believe he would beat Lomachenko? It happens all the time throughout history. But, the things I mentioned do matter. Experience is an underrated aspect of boxing. When you haven't been in the ring with anything close to those level of fighters, that is an advantage they have over you. Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, and Duran are not seeing anything in Crawford they haven't encountered before. The same can't be said about Crawford. Just as I named times where there have been upsets, there are just as many times when experience played a factor. Ali vs Foreman, Mayweather vs Canelo, Leonard vs Hearns, Foreman vs Moore, etc.

 

So if you go to the rankings during the time of the fight Spence wasn't there in the top 5? That's not semantics. It's common sense. Funny thing is, you think your opinion and emotions are more credible than the actual facts. Let's me know you will struggle with having a logical conversation with other adults.

Again, please point out which round Crawford was running. You trying to say all 12 rounds, yet it was Madrimov who's face got tore up and he was required to wear sunglasses the remainder of the weekend. It was Madrimov who was checked out by the doctors at the end of the fight. Never seen someone's face get so dismantle due to a person running from them for 12 rounds......

Yes, the fight was boring because Madrimov's athleticism and power that was advertised leading up to the fight, WASN'T PRESENT. That little jump hook he throws in EVERY single bout he's had as a pro....He didn't do it once. Madrimov was so busy trying to "make sure Crawford doesn't get in rhythm" that he forgot about his own offense and did nothing. Crawford brought the fight to him especially late in rounds.

You aren't making any sense. You are admitting that Madrimov did nothing to engage, yet you claim Crawford was running. What was he running from if Madrimov wasn't throwing anything. You clearly haven't sat down and watched the fight. You was too busy yelling and hoping Crawford would get hit. Probably listening to the commentators praise Madrimov for throwing his single punch and ignore the fact he got a 3 punch combination in return.....lol.

Look at Madrimov's body language immediately following the fight. Due look like he was just put on punishment by his parents for not doing the dishes.....lol. You want me to believe he felt he won..... Have you ever seen him fight before the Crawford bout? He wasn't active and when he tried to, he got hurt 4 DIFFERENT TIMES. His feints kept him from being stopped. That was a moral victory for his camp.

 

Hagler brutally stops him.

 

The Four Kings were just flat-out better. That's not even a knock against Crawford, who is great, but we're talking about historical top-tier H2H prowess.

 

I get the feeling Hearns and Hagler could win but SRL and Duran would get ****ed up.

 

Leonard keeps it long, Kell Brook had success but he was well past it. He's the faster guy here so Crawford trying to beat him to the punch might be his undoing. Imo Leonard is also much better on the inside

 

Nope, we're not doing this.

Puncher's chance maybe against Hearns only at welter only - but not a snowball's in hell of beating SRL, Hagler, or Durán in any division.