Criticizing Jones' resume

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by KillSomething, Jan 9, 2015.


  1. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    Is it not true? :huh

    So Jones fought a lot of big fights and faced most all of the worthy challengers?
     
  2. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Have we not gone through I mean your the guy who said Toney wasn't a puncher honestly why would I even debate with you ?

    Go kick rocks!
     
  3. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    James Toney was not and never was a savage puncher. Ever.
     
  4. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why not?
     
  5. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    You said said the same thing about Khan yet he fought Maidana

    Seems this is just a crazy talk pattern with you.
     
  6. Mind Reader

    Mind Reader J-U-ICE Full Member

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    A well placed Toney power shot WAS a savage punch, go ask Michael Nunn... He also carried his power up to HW and stopped Holyfield...

    Quit being such a hater.
     
  7. Mind Reader

    Mind Reader J-U-ICE Full Member

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    This is a good point. Roy toyed with many top 10 rated fighters like they were school kids.
     
  8. Imperial1

    Imperial1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Wonder what Jirov thought of his power ?
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    What is this purpose of this post?


    Because Roy had a better career.

    He has a better resume.

    Not only does Roy have a better overall resume, he has a better LHW resume.


    You're basically hyping everything that Dariusz did, whilst at the same time dismissing everything that Roy did.


    You've said that all but two of Roy's belts, were paper belts.

    Yet for 90% of his career, Dariusz defended a belt that nobody respected. It wasn't needed to be the unified/undisputed champ, the Ring magazine didn't have ratings for it, and it was deemed a laughing stock by respected sports writers such as Thomas Hauser.

    Were Dariusz's 23 title defences special?

    Go and look at who he fought.

    Statistics don't allow for circumstances.


    Winning a version of the HW title (paper or not) was better than anything Dariusz achieved.


    Roy was fed up of people constantly asking him about Dariusz. He was sick of it, because Dariusz was writing bogus letters and mouthing off in the press. But when it came down to it, Kerry Davis couldn't deal with Peter Kohl. He wasn't interested.
     
  10. pecho26

    pecho26 ESB Lurker Full Member

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    You dont even know what a puncher is.
     
  11. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    Pretty sure the point was Jones didn't fight any of his contemporaries other than James Toney :lol::lol::rofl:rofl
     
  12. Mind Reader

    Mind Reader J-U-ICE Full Member

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    Toney hit Jones with a savage left hook at the end of round 5.... Jones took it well, and the announcers actually said they were impressed with Jones' punch resistance.

    I bet you wouldn't know that though, as you probably only watched highlights.. You actually once said Jones was afraid to engage Toney.:lol: You obviously were not watching the fight from planet Earth.:good
     
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Thanks.

    I really don't know. It seemed totally out of character. Dariusz didn't just have a very good chin he was also a warrior too.

    Very strange.

    No, I think they didn't like each other at all back then. Rocchigiani called him a stupid Pole at one point. lol

    There was talk of a third fight at one point, years after they'd retired.

    Rivals Rocchigiani and Michalczewski set for rematch

    Two of the biggest names in recent German boxing history are set for a third duel next year after the signing of pre-contract deals. Graciano "Rocky" Rocchigiani and Dariusz "Tiger" Michalczewski are due to step into the ring at the TUI Arena in Hanover on May 24.

    Polish national Michalczewski, who competed out of Germany, Thursday confirmed the fight, reported to be worth around 3 million euros (4.3 million dollars) for each boxer, in an interview with Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

    "This will be a present to my fans and to me as well as I'll be celebrating my 40th birthday shortly beforehand," Michalczewski said.

    Both fighters will be coming out of several years of retirement for the bout.

    Michalczewski has already been in a health spa to lose weight, while "enfant terrible" Rocchigiani, who will be 44 next month, is reported to have resumed training after being released recently from prison for drink-driving and assaulting a taxi driver.

    The boxers fought two controversial World Boxing Organization (WBO) light-heavyweight title fights. Rocchigiani was disqualified in 1996 in Hamburg and lost the rematch in 2000 by technical knock-out in Hanover.

    The fighters were seen as bitter enemies, with Rochigianni telling Michalczewski after the 2000 defeat; "You won, but you'll always be a stupid Pole to me." However they have sinced called themselves friends.

    Michalczewski, who was based in Hamburg during his fight career and rarely boxed outside of Germany, was undefeated for 12 years during which he held WBO, World Boxing Association (WBA) and International Boxing Federation (IBF) belts.

    He lost the last two of his 50 fights but retired holding the record for the most consecutive successful title defences at light heavyweight


    [YT]IX1DAY-3PHU[/YT]

    I went through a phase of disliking him too. But I was a big Benn fan back then.

    Unquestionably.

    He lost to Schommer.

    Neither can I. It's like dancing without music. lol

    I don't have a choice. :D

    I don't really know. I think Dariusz at his best would've given Roy serious problems. But I don't want to get into that with anyone. That's just my honest opinion

    I actually like Maske. He was a fantastic amateur: Olympic gold medalist at MW. World amateur gold and silver medalist at LHW and MW respectively and he was also a 3x European gold medalist at MW too. He had a reputation as a boring fighter but his first fight against Rocchigiani is actually pretty exciting from what I recall of it.

    I think it was from 2012 (translation isn't the best):

    He lives of 374 euros and sleeping in a 25-square-meter room

    Millions of people have kept their with his boxing fights. He cashed million euros in the ring. Today she lives Graciano Rocchigiani (48 ) of 374 euros a month.

    Rocky gets Hartz IV. And fighting for a new life.
    A Hartz IV application has made the job center in Zossen / Brandenburg and has already received the first payment Germany's scandal-boxer.

    Rocky BILD: "I want to start from scratch and make everything better."
    In Großziethen, community Schönefeld and 25 kilometers from the city of Berlin, Rocky has arrived. The former world champion lives in a boarding house.

    A room with 25 square meters. Bed, wardrobe, table, that's it. A friend pays the rent (50 euros per day), breakfast and dinner treats the pension boss.

    Rocky's out of Berlin, away from the booze.

    He admits, "It's good to get away from old friends. They sat so often in the pub "With Rocky -. And often much alcohol.

    "The alcohol has made me much broken. I do not drink more sip. "
    Rocky was several times world champion Henry Maske in 1995 issued cheated on the edge of a knockout loss and was the point of judgment for the win.

    From his fight Exchanges nothing left. Also, none of the compensation of 3.6 million euros, the Association of Boxing WBC had to pay after years of process 1998, he, because he had Rocky unlawfully stripped the world title.

    At that time, millions today Hartz IV.

    Rocky: "I have no qualms I paid so much money in taxes. But I want this crisis as soon as possible finish, I want to earn my own money back. "
    With friend Sonja 2011 was the end. Only a few good friends are left to him. And the hope that Rocky finds its way from the bottom to the top.



    I didn't actually know that.


    It was ludicrous.

    I think he was $31 million but I don't think he ended up getting that amount. They paid him in installments IIRC and I think he might have agreed to accept less at a later date. He could've made them go bankrupt. I don't know too much about that episode though. I'm sure there are others on here who are much more knowledgeable about it than I am.

    The World Boxing Council is asking boxer Graciano Rocchigiani to allow them to suspend the this year’s payment that stems from a lawsuit settlement.

    Rocchigiani was awarded $31 million dollars in damages by a New York City federal court jury in 2003, from a lawsuit against the World Boxing Council and its president, Jose Sulaiman. The lawsuit began in 1998 with claims that the WBC had improperly taken away his title.

    After Roy Jones Jr. dropped his title for aplanned move to the heavyweight division, the two leading contenders, Graciano Rocchigiani and Michael Nunn, fought in Germany in 1998 for the vacant title. Rocchigiani won and was crowned champion. After Jones announced that he was going to stay at the light heavyweight, the WBC downgraded Rocchigiani's status to "interim champ" and later stripped him of that status and gave the title back to Jones.

    After the WBC filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2003, the two parties reached a private settlement, which is reputed to span seven years.

    But WBC President Jose Sulaiman explained: “We want to suspend the payment for this year, because we don’t have the money! I can’t mention how much is involved, because we have an agreement between the parties not to mention the money, but it is a lot!

    “My message to Graciano is that people believe, and I strongly believe that the World Boxing Council is needed for boxing in the world. We are providing many benefits for the sport. I could not image professional boxing without the WBC green and gold belt, So I’m asking Graciano, who has made so much money out of us, that at least he could give us, understanding the situation, an extension this year without a payment, while we look what to do to get the money.”

    The WBC is organizing an event including a dinner and bouts including a world title fight for December 6th in Cancun, to raise money to help pay the debt.

    Don Jose said: “I’m thinking about having some dinners or something, because I thought the promoters would help directly, but they don’t.”
    :good
     
  14. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    It was a boring fight with neither guy willing to engage. Not as boring as the Hopkins fight though the crowd was booing throughout the whole fight in that one. :lol::lol:
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    KillSomething,

    The first to thing to note, is that Roy didn't officially move up to SMW, until he fought Toney in Nov, 94.

    But yes, he did have 6 keep busy fights above 160 before that point. Between late 92, to early 93, he fought three fights just 3-4 pounds over, before he fought Hopkins for the vacant IBF, MW title. Then after Hopkins, he fought three more fights above MW, before his one and only MW title defence against Thomas Tate. It was only after that point, that he moved up to SMW on a permanent basis.

    Therefore, I think it would be extremely harsh to question why Roy didn't fight those ranked guys from the 92-93 lists above.


    Roy's official SMW reign, was from Nov, 94, until Oct, 96.

    After he fought Toney, he fought a few mandatories, among a few other fights, but he wasn't able to fight Frankie Liles or Nigel Benn. (as discussed)

    So after only a handful of fights, he was faced with a dilemma:

    Either to remain at SMW without being able to unify at SMW.

    Or to take on a new challenge at LHW.

    So he did the latter.


    Now I don't know why he gets criticised for those SMW fights, because he should have received credit for moving up.

    Because he could easily have remained at SMW and continued to fight lesser fights.


    Now let's look at the guys who Roy supposedly avoided/ducked, who were supposedly deserving of a fight, during his reign as IBF champion.



    Nunn - Nunn only had TWO fights at 168 during Roy's reign, a loss to Liles, and a win over Scully. His other fights were between 175-195.


    Benn and Liles were deserving of a fight. But as discussed, Liles turned down his biggest payday, and Benn lost to Malinga, whilst Roy's advisors were there in attendance.


    Collins was deserving of a fight, but Roy passed up the opportunity to fight for his lightly regarded WBO title, and instead moved up to LHW.


    Eubank expressed no interest in fighting Roy, and was more than content to defend his WBO belt on SKY/ITV.


    Iran Barkley - NO FIGHTS AT 168, during Roy's reign.


    Victor Cordoba - Just ONE win against Tim Hillie, and I don't know if that was at 168 or 175.


    Tim Littles - Three wins against: Casenay Truesdale, Mike Belcher and Chris Sande. Also, he'd already been knocked out by Toney.


    Nardiello - Five wins against Massimillano Bocchini, Jose Vargas, Rolando Torres, Noberto Bueno and Malinga.


    Van Horn - NO FIGHTS AT 168 during Roy's reign.


    Ray Close - Just ONE FIGHT at 168, a loss to Eubank in their rematch.


    Rocchigiani - Just ONE FIGHT at 168, a draw against Seillier.


    Frank Nicotra - Just ONE FIGHT at 168, a win against Hedi El Assaidi.



    So, TWO of the fighters above, didn't even fight at 168 while Roy was there, and FOUR other fighters only had one fight each.


    So those SIX fighters clearly weren't DESERVING of a shot.


    That's what happens when someone has an agenda.


    The guy who wrote that was just throwing names around, and he was unwilling to allow for any circumstances.


    :good