Criticizing Jones' resume

Bringing Joe Calzaghe into the equation doesn't hold water. Roy Jones Jr was at the end of his career, and may have wanted big money without risking to get seriously hurt. Joe was a suitable opponent for that. It's also appearant that Roy quit after a few rounds. He didn't seem interested in winning and was content curling up.

Roy fighting Antonio Tarver because boxing industry putting pressure on him is not a weak argument. It's not against logic or common sense in any way at all.

But Roy never went through with it. After picking up a strap from John Ruiz, he could have approached Evander Holyfield again. Now he had defeated a legit HW, just like Evander had asked of him. Instead Roy left HW for good.

Roy contemplating fighting Evander but giving up on the idea is poor proof of his willingness to face anyone.

With regards to Nunn, from what General Zod has told us it seems like Roy did everything save faked his own death to avoid him. If you find this course of action logic or not hardly change what Roy did.

You don't know that.

 

It's hilarious how people shrug off a former JMW beating a top 5 HW and world champion in Ruiz.. Especially in the way he did it, his speed and power made Ruiz freeze like a deer in headlights for most of the fight. Roy was even standing in the center of the ring with both hands below his waist at one point... The way he could move backwards and hammer Ruiz with lighting fast power shots when Ruiz tried to come forward was a thing of beauty.. Not being able to appreciate that is outright hating in my opinion.

If Calzaghe had ever done that to a natural HW, all his fans would be hyping it... But because it was Roy and wasn't against Lennox, and the fact that everyone hates Ruiz, that win his highly underrated.


Roy winning titles in 4 different weights with wins over Hopkins, Toney, Tarver and Ruiz is impressive no matter how haters try to spin it... Not to mention dropping back down and regaining the LHW title in a hard fought battle against a tall southpaw who's career was motivated by beating Roy... Very few have done that.

Ok rant over.

 

Hopkins was ranked higher when they fought and had 1 more fight than Roy .,

If anyone was unwilling to make that fight it was Hopkins !

He no diffrent when Showtime negotiated a deal to eventually fight Joe C priced himself out of the fight ! What does him unifying titles at middle have to do with a fight for the LHW title ? Hopkins had no leverage ! He already lost to Roy and was challenging for Roy's belt !

He was in no position to demand a higher split he wasn't even a bigger draw at the time!


Also the offer he received from Roy would have been one of his biggest purses before the Delahoya fight !

Again he had no intentions of fighting Roy when he was still atop of his game that's why he waited for him to get brutally knocked out twice and lose his legs to finally get him in the ring !

Jones ducked him

 

corrected for you, your grammar needs work mate. but yeah its a bit sad these eurobums and Hopkins all came outa hiding for a payday when roy got old and shot2sht

 

AnotherFan,

This is funny.

Where do you draw the line?

He doesn't get credit for anything.

Roy could have carried on fighting non threatening Tito like bouts. But he didn't. He wanted to get back in the P4P rankings.

You can't rip him for supposedly ducking people, and then not give him credit when he challenged Joe, just prior to his 40th birthday.

You can't have it both ways.

If he'd have been fighting purely for the money, he'd have fought more often against lesser opposition.

He quit against Joe, because he was out of his depth.

Boxing is defined by levels, and the timing of the fights.

Roy hadn't won at the top level for five years, he was 3-3 in his previous six fights, and Joe was an elite guy.

Fighting Joe at almost 40, when his legs were no longer there, was much harder than fighting a faded Nunn at 28.

It's just zod being biased again. Do you seriously think if Roy hadn't have wanted to fight Tarver due to the threat he posed, that he'd have took the fight because of pressure?

Nonsense.

Roy spoke of fighting Tarver after the Woods fight. He was asked directly if he'd fight him. His response was "The only thing stopping that, is a John Ruiz fight." After he'd beaten Ruiz, he wanted big money to remain at HW. When a big money fight didn't materialise, he tried to get his old belts back, to make history.

But he could have done a number of things instead. He could have taken a break, gone to CW, or fought a lesser guy at LHW, to ease himself back. But he didn't. Losing muscle at almost 35 to fight Tarver, had to have been a bigger challenge than fighting Nunn.

What about Frankie Liles?

We know he offered Liles a fight and he turned it down.

Look where Nunn was in his career in late 97, and look where Liles was in his career in 96.

It defies all logic to offer Liles a fight, but then run from Nunn.

It also defers logic to try and fight Evander instead.

How could he have gone through with it, if Evander didn't want to fight, because he felt he was in a no win situation?

Roy again had talks with Evander late in 2001, just prior to Evander's final fight with Ruiz.

After Roy had beaten Ruiz in 2003, Evander was lined up as Roy's defence of his title. Jim Thomas met with Murad Muhammad and Don King to discuss the fight. But they couldn't agree on the upside of the PPV, and the money that Don owed Evander from previous fights. In the end, Evander told Thomas to pull the plug out of principle. So he ended up fighting James Toney instead, for less money with no title shot.

He didn't just contemplate it, he went to Atlanta to meet him in person.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

You think that that challenging Evander doesn't prove that Roy didn't fear the likes of Collins and Nunn?

Roy had already contemplated going up to HW before he'd rematched Griffin. He was going to get $1.8m to fight Nunn. He wanted more. When he couldn't get it, he dropped the belt and went to Atlanta. In the end, he fought Hill for $3m and Nunn lost to Roch.

I do no know that.

After he'd lost to Joe, he'd only got one more goal left, which was to win a CW belt. So he went to Australia to fight Danny Green. Again, he could have fought lesser guys.

 

:good

 

atsch

Aren't you getting fed up of being schooled?

Your whole posts are f*cked up.


HOW did Roy price himself out in 2002?

Once again:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/stories/2002-07-10-jones-hopkins.htm


In 2010, Roy made hardly anything against Bernard.


Do you you want to know what type of a guy Bernard is?

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Benz/Benz_1112a08.htm

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/30/bernard-hopkins-relishes-chance-send-roy-jones-jr-/


Even Nazeem Richardson didn't want the fight.


atsch

 

Thats not all that is f*ucked lol.

Jones asking for 60-40 was fair, especially since Jones would be moving down in weight as Hopkins said Jones was too big. Also Jones already beat Hopkins, and in the business of boxing, a win is negotiating power.

And Hopkins had no problem fighting Roy once he was shot and knocked out by the Green Machine in one round. Though Hopkins had already dismissed him as no longer a great fighter.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for him, he had a pretty sweet HBO deal where he got to stay at home and beat the **** out of his mandos for 5 million a fight. I think HBO is still paying him as a matter of fact. Titles in four different weights, wins over Hopkins, Toney, Tarver and Ruiz... The man is an ATG... I feel sorry for you not being able to appreciate a great fighter.

 

:good

 

I merely point out what went down.

Claiming Roy Jones Jr fought Joe Calzaghe due to bravery is where I draw the line excacly.

I give him credit for beating some A-level opponents as well as head to head ability.

He wanted the big money.

When Roy fought Joe, he had little to lose. Another loss would make no difference and Joe doesn't have the power to seriosly hurt someone. When Roy ducked Michael Nunn and Graciano Rocchigiani he had more to lose.

The core principle of your argument is that if a boxer fights dangerous opponents a few times, this excludes the possibility that he at other occasions cherrypicked, ducked or took the path of least resistance. This logic is seriously flawed. It means Joe Calzaghe never ducked Carl Froch because it makes no sense considering Joe fought world level opponents such as Chris Eubank. It also means Joe didn't made it easy on himself by fighting average mandatories in Wales. Why would anyone who unified against a strong and sound champ like Mikkel Kessler do something like that?

No. Big Money requires big fights.

He quit because he didn't care about winning.

Of course, but circumstances had changed. Roy could no longer expect big money by fighting average opponents.

Yes, I think it makes perfect sense. Roy took risks when required to stay in the cash flow. Saying goodbye to the good life was no option.

Enlightment.

He could avoid Nunn with little trouble. Tarver was a different story. And boxers has to cooperate with other people in the industry to manage their careers. They are not omnipotent.

The reason to why Roy left HW was not because the absence of profitable opponents, but because of survival instincts. Vitali Klitschko had expressed his interest.

Roy had several chances to fight with Nunn, but made sure to spoil them. If this seems logical or not to you, doesn't change what he did. Obviously it seemed logical to Roy.

Evander Holyfield said Roy needed to beat a legit HW. After Roy had outpointed John Ruiz, he had lived up to this demand. Do you have any source confirming that Roy wanted Evander after picking up the strap from John? If so, I agree that was courageous. But I think it would have been better for his legacy to fight the best in his real weightclasses instead of going after heaveweights that were slowing down due to age and wear and tear. It's showy but it's not about the best fighting the best.

Roy made the best, calculated move he could at that stage of his career. It has no relevance in regards to Roys fight against Sir Joe.

 

AnotherFan,

Roy also fought him for the challenge, and to get back into the P4P rankings.

Saying he fought him purely for the money, because he had no choice, is just biased nonsense.

He didn't fight him just for the money. Zod has only claimed that, just so he doesn't have to give him credit for taking the fight.

He went and fought Hopkins again, about 18 months after Joe, and he made hardly anything from the fight. Bernard was classed as an elite fighter at that point, after a narrow points loss to Joe, and the schooling of Kelly Pavlik. So did Roy have no choice but to fight him, even though he didn't make much?

Roy's currently in the media now, bizarrely chasing down Marko Huck for a CW title.

This is not a guy who took the path of least resistance.

He didn't have to fight Joe.

Ducking someone out of fear of losing to them, and not wanting to fight them because you've got bigger aspirations or better opportunities, are two entirely different things. Are you seriously telling me that Roy at 28 was scared of Nunn? He didn't want to fight Collins either. We're not talking about a peak Tyson, we're talking about Steve Collins. A very tough, iron willed fighter, but who was limited. Was Roy scared of him at 27? I Just don't believe it. It defies all logic.

Everyone's circumstances are different.

Have you ever read a post of mine where I've argued that Roy DID want to fight Collins and Nunn?

I know that he didn't want to fight them.

But I'm putting forward a logical argument, that he didn't duck them out of a fear of losing to them.

You can have links where Kerry Davis - VP for HBO, tried to make a Dariusz M fight in the U.S.

You can have links for when Liles turned him down.

You can have links where Hopkins priced himself out of a rematch in 2002.

Look at who Roy fought.

Look at who he tried to fight.

Ducking and dismissing are two different things.

Do you seriously believe that Roy was on the verge of being homeless or something? He's squandered a lot of money, but he also made millions. There's no way that he only fought Joe for a payday. Again, it's just an excuse to not give him credit. Again, why did he fight Hopkins again in 2010? He didn't have to take that fight.

If he's in huge debt, why hasn't he fought more than 10 times in the last 7 years?

BS.

He was fighting an elite, volume punching southpaw. After the cut, he did his best to survive.

Unless there'd have been a time machine he could have used at the end of one of the rounds, he couldn't do anything else.

You say he ducked lesser fighters than Joe, and criticise him.

He then fought Joe, but you give him no credit.

He did his best against Joe, yet you criticise him for quitting.

Ha!

But a guy who didn't want to challenge himself, who desperately needed money, could have fought more often against lower level opposition.

Well then you don't know anything about Roy.

I've watched him for many years, and I can assure you that had he not wanted to have fought Tarver, he wouldn't have fought him.

How was Tarver a different story?

Roy was at HW.

They weren't even in the same division.

He had other options.

It's absolutely laughable that you're saying he was pressured into fighting Tarver.

Again, he told Merchant in the post fight interview for Woods, that it was Tarver or Ruiz next. If the Ruiz fight had've fallen through, he'd have fought Tarver.

If Tarver had've beaten Eric Harding in an earlier eliminator, Roy would have fought Tarver in 2000.

Roy was looking to cash out with a huge money fight. He was a LHW who was approaching 35. Nobody could have expected him to have fought a guy like Vitali.

Roy did try and fight the best in his weight class.

 

AnotherFan,

I look at what his actions were, both before and after talks.

In 97, Nunn was faded and fighting lower level guys. He went on to lose to Roch. Roy wasn't happy with the $1.8m on offer, and ended up fighting Hill for $3m, after the Douglas fight had been cancelled.

But the previous year, he offered to fight Liles, who was the WBA, SMW champ, in much better form.

Liles was a big southpaw, who'd beaten Roy in the amateurs.

If a faded Nunn bothered you, you wouldn't go anywhere near Frankie Liles.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...a=X&ei=0eLKVI_3L8bD7gam6oDgCw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBw

It has every relevance.

After he fought Joe and Green, he fought Hopkins again, and a hard hitting CW southpaw in Lebedev.

He didn't need to take fights like that. They were extremely hard fights, and they didn't pay out huge money.