Cross Armed Defense Discussion

from a bystander view, im no boxer

i think the cross arm defense neutralizes the uppercut and can be turned to the philly shell like defense which lets your shoulder roll the right hand (like floyd mayweather and james toney) because your hand is already in a cocked position. but if you are squared up with your opponent and man handle them like george foreman, joe frazier and ken norton, i believe you are very vulnerable to the left hook, norton was very vulnerable to shavers' left hook. you also will find it hard to throw punches of any kind with your left hand because it is around your ribs.

-azumah nelson, ivan robinson and jorge paez sometimes used the cross arm defense
-gilbert baptist became the pupal or archie moore and had a pretty good career using the old school ways.
-david tua
-phillip holiday
-clifford etienne... i think

 

Uzcudun, and why he employed the cross arm, was the primary focus of that post, and I happened to refer to Frazier in passing.

I made mention of the fact that both sustained reshaping injuries to their left arms, but only named Paulino ("he," not "they") as thus having to devise a cross armed guard because of it. I did not mean to imply that both had to consequently apply the cross armed defense as a result of these different injuries, and I apologize if I conveyed that inference.

The story goes that Joe injured his left arm as a farm boy wrestling a hog, and that he couldn't extend it straight after it healed, leading to him being able to develop the sort of hook he had. Paulino supposedly injured his in a wood chopping accident. Uzcudun was compelled to adapt with the cross armed guard he developed.

While the cross armed defense is considered an effective tool against the uppercut, it was ironically just such a punch that Louis used to deck and retire Paulino. Foreman's uppercuts were ruinous to Frazier in Kingston as well, but as you correctly observed, Joe did not resort to the cross armed guard nearly as much as stereotyped. Even against Cummings, he's not dependent on it as Norton and second career Foreman were.

 

He used it great against Ali. I think he knew he could use breathers and rely on it because Ali rarely went to the body.

Thanks for getting back, great post.

 

The jab actually comes from a very effective angle using this style.

 

I like using it myself from time to time, good as a shell but very hard to use offensively without a lot of practice.

 

You have to telegraph your punches more when fighting out of it. It impedes your peripheral vision. Your vulnerable to a combination puncher. Your vulnerable to bodyshots, and like someone said you need to have the right kind of arms to use it properly. I dont like it at all.

 

How so? Can you snap your jab out of a cross armed stance?

 

You can, yes. Although it is harder to through than from the conventional stance.

I feel the torque you can obtain from twisting it and the angle it comes from make it a very effective jab.

 

The cross armed defense should only be used by certain fighters.



As another poster mentioned thick arms help. So would a short torso. With these attributes, across armed defense can help a boxer cover up, and offer extra guard vs. a body attack. That is the defensive positive. The defense tends to work best when a fighter is near a corner or has his back close to the ropes.



Offensively speaking cross armed guard is not for everyone. It can work well for hookers, especially if they are good counter punchers, but really is not great for straight type of punches.



In closing the picture of a good cross armed fighter is shorter than normal, with thick arms, and good countering and hooking ability.

 

I have to disagree with you on all accounts, the cross arm to an expeirenced user lets you throw both sneak jabs and right hands, hard to see and easy to land. Your more square to your opponent and your arms and hands are closer to him, because their crossed it doesn't look like a punch is going to come out of it. Theres nothing in the cross arm that would impede peripheral vision. I don't know why you think the cross arm makes one more vunerable to combination punching, its all in the skill of the user and blocking body punches is its real value. What you didn't write was that its not a great defense long range but that wouldn't involve body punches either.

 

i think it may make a difference on how tight your arms are crossed across you chest. ken norton had his left arm floating by his chest which i think made it easier to jab.

 

Do you think it would be great against someone like Wlad? Like say a Frazier type using it against Wlad?

 

it works better against straight punches not so much if your facing a wide punching hooker

 

I dont know how you could throw an effective power punch when your power arm is in front and your stance is squared, the distance of the shot is shortened substantially but the motion impedes leverage 100 times more. Using George Foreman as an example for the purpose of this discussion (who preferred a straight right as opposed to a hook), he did not always use that defense and punch out of it, he often went back to more of a conventional stance to throw his jab and setup his rigthand, but he often found himself out of punching position against a guy who kept throwing shots back at him.
Additionally, your open to combination punches up and down your body, #1 because your more squared up, and #2 the position of your arms exposes either the upper or lower part of your body depending on what type of punch your blocking. Evander Holyfield for example, used effective body to head combination punching to expose the openings George was leaving as he brought his arms up to block shots.
As far as your jab, personally I cant get the leverage and push behind it coming out of that awkward cross position, and I dont see how anyone could have as much steam behind it with their elbow raised perpindicular to their body.
To me most fighters flicked a rangefinding jab out of that stance and didnt have an affective busting jab out of it.
I think the fighters that liked that defense were pressure fighters, who lacked the head and upper body movement, but it was an effective way to not get hit cleanly to the head, but their offense was quite easy to offset..
Frazier was unique to that style because he used his upper body movement and forward momentum to get leverage on his hooks, which would be the most affective shot coming out of that stance.

 

Foreman used it a lot in his comeback.Good for blocking shots but it probably isnt the best defense to use for counterpunching