CRUISER HOLYFIELD V MARCIANO ?

You have this fascination with muscle and you cant comprehend reality.......did you ever fight? all boxers train their neck muscles putting on muscle does not stop a KO....and if you ever wrestled which it sounds like you are too stupid to know neck muscle size is not strength.....if muscle on the neck magically fixed glass chin issues there would be neck building experts making a killing by fighters like Amir Khan a guy with a weak chin and world class talent........now go read some more comics BOOM....POW......BAM

 

It is pretty evident that you are the one who never have touched a boxing glove in your sad life. A bigger,stronger and more muscular neck helps to take a better shot because if you have a better support of your head your brain would not move that fast after you take the shot.it is not all but the neck is a big part of the equation. So yes. A hw evander could take a better punch than his 190 version.and you said that the weight was not relevant. Sorry nerd but you are ****ing with the wrong guy

 

Holyfield was 215 pounds when he fought Tyson. 208 vs Foreman. About 215 for Lewis and Mercer. Weight (up to a certain point) does make a difference. Had he come into the ring at 190 pounds vs Tyson, I think it would've been a different story. In fact, if the cruiser division had been created in 1990 instead of 1980, we might have seen a 190 pound Holyfield vs a 218 pound Tyson. The extra weight DOES help you absorb punches better. It may not make a china chin an iron chin, but it does help.

The first time Patterson fought Johansson, he weighed 182 pounds and when Johansson hit him with that right hand flush, it was the beginning of the end. In the rematches, Patterson was 190ish pounds and he did get hit flush with those right hands and while they buzzed him or in the 3rd fight, knocked him down, he took the punches much better.

What if Michael Spinks came into the ring weighing 170-175 against Larry Holmes instead of bulking up to 200-205 pounds? In the 2nd fight, Holmes staggered Michael Spinks with a right hand but Spinks was able to ride it out and recover. What do you think would have happened if Spinks was 170-175 instead of 205 and got hit with that same right hand? The ref may have been counting him out.

Adding muscle mass to move up may not give you an iron chin if you have a glass chin, but it can help you to better absorb harder punches.

 

Raped is a strong word. But I get your point and don't think he'd have been as successful, at least not against the best of the best more modern day heavies

 

Again you idiot all fighters train their necks I did and so does every one else who fights in all combat sports they do bridges, weights, towel resistance you name it they all do it the strength of the neck has nothing to do with size.....if you had ever fought and its apparent from your fascination with muscles you have no idea what you are talking about then you would know that some guys have strong skinny necks....neck thickness is genetics like forearms....had you ever wrestled and not just read comics you would have seen world class wrestlers with average necks.....again you are so fascinated with muscle size but since you don't know what you are talking about or ever been a fighter you have no idea how little neck muscles affect the chin because they are different animals....and since you don't seem to understand I again use fighters like Amir Khan who added muscle to their necks and body and they could still not handle the power of a bigger fighter his jaw was glass with or without muscle......now go to a gym and train to fight so you can quit making these ridiculous assumptions that muscle equals power, chin, etc.....their are alot of fighters with iron chins and skinny but strong necks......now dingleberry for your pleasure I would also point out that Tyson and Holyfield sparred and Tyson could KO a 178lb Holyfield even though he always hurt his sparring partners....if a guy cannot take a punch at 190 fighting 190lb guys he will not be able to take a punch of a Tyson or a Foreman at 208......how old are you???

 

Pattersons ability to take punches in the rematch had more to do with focus and expecting the power unlike the first fight.....the same thing would have happened with Spinks and Holmes...Spinks had a great chin for a LtHeavy and average for heavyweight he put on the weight to handle strength not power Mackie Shilstone would be the first to tell you that the strength allowed Spinks to not get as tired fighting a bigger man and mildly better at taking a punch.....does some body strength help with taking a punch??? I would suggest you get into a gym so you can better understand what I am saying fighters also use to chew rubber and gum to strengthen their jaw and carry bricks to make their hands harder we now know that sure their is a tiny bit of resistance from chewing gum and strengthening your neck but you can't fix a glass chin and that is where combatesdeboxeo seems obsessed with stocky muscles being the answer to power and punch resistance to a naive level.....I was a fighter I tried every solution to toughen my own resistance and as a trainer to help fighters with weak chins to get more resilient and you cannot take a guy whom some would say 187lb Rocky would KO or simply overpower and suddenly give him the toughness to take flush punches from Mercer, Lewis, Foreman, Bowe and Tyson if he wasn't already that tough......any real fighter will tell you the number 1 resistance to punches is focus...being ready....without focus all the steroids in the world won't help.....that's real experience and a lifetime in the sport talking

There is definitely some confusion with some people when I argue that Jim Jeffries was not a proven ATG because he fought much smaller men so his chin is unproven that is an educated experienced opinion based off him getting punched by middleweights and ltheavyweights testing his chin not quality heavyweights so how great was his chin??? we don't know....when I say that a glass chinned fighter cannot enhance is punch resistance with muscles it is because I have spent years in the sport and study the greats and have gone through this with fighters I trained.....You can have a glass chin that is made worse by a weak neck getting snapped back and you can have am iron chinned fighter get dizzy from getting his head snapped back but not KO'd and an iron chin better with a strong neck.....but as I have said since before Dempsey's era fighters train their necks extensively to strengthen their necks just like today and chew gum etc.....putting on weight just allows the fighter to not get pushed around and fatigued fighting bigger stronger men

There once was a fighter named Kenny Bang Bang Bogner who trained his neck to freakish size and strength for lightweight so he could better take punches he was in talks with Boom Boom Mancini's people for a fight and sure enough his chin failed him why??? because the neck did not fix his chin.....the point being if Holyfield did not have the chin to take Foreman or Tyson punches at 190 it wasn't going to be able to take them at 210+ either especially having slower feet

 

So why would a welter weight with a great chin like say Sugar Ray Robinson likely be KO'd by a flush right hand from an average punching heavyweight like Muhammad Ali? The answer isn't because "size doesn't matter".

And no, I'm still not convinced that 175 pound Spinks would take the same kind of shots that 205 pound Spinks took from Larry Holmes without being stopped. I repeatedly said that adding weight won't make a glass chin into an iron chin, but I did say that it would help in absorbing punches. That's one big reason why fighters moving up in weight classes put on extra size. If it was totally irrelevant, why bother putting on size?

According to many on here, it doesn't help punching power, it doesn't help punch resistance, it doesn't help strength so when a fighter like say Spinks or Holyfield move up, do they just put on the extra size so they can take up more space in the ring? Do they think some of us might have smaller televisions and and may not be able to see them clearly so they put on the extra size to make themselves more visible on a small screen? I mean, I'm not trying to be funny or mocking, but to hear it around here, it just makes no difference whatsoever besides some minor, inconsequential difference.

 

Again because a 190 fighter would wear out in clinches with 220-260lb fighters that is the purpose for the weight and strength gain the rest is academic.....either you can take a punch or you can't I have seen college wrestlers with 20-21 inch necks and muscles get KO'd by stringy wiry guys trying to learn how to box and stringy wiry guys with iron chins and big power....I would suggest you go to a boxing gym with a friend who has a thick muscular neck and muscles and see if they equal better chin and power or.....grappling strength in clinches?

Of course size matters especially to the extremes you stated...again a 156lb fighter like Robinson even with a great chin would not turn our well fighting a 190lb heavyweight anymore than a 190lb heavy taking Foremans punches muscle or not.

 

In other words ... No mas.

Spectacularly pathetic argument as ever.

 

I get Marciano against a 187lb opponent who has decent, but not earth shattering power, and this opponent is known to get in firefights? I have a hard time picking against Marciano here. A FOTY barn burner, but I'm favoring Marciano here slightly.

 

But Walcott could bang and he was heavier than a cruiser Holy.

 

Holyfield goes to the hospital after being ko'ed in the 13th round