Cruiser vs Light Heavy

I wouldn't even exclude the very lowest from being superior.

Light fly alone has Chocolatito, El Confesor, Casimero, and Ioka - better p4p than any grouping of four to be found at CW or LHW. (hell, maybe combined)

The highest divisions in weight - light heavy, cruiser, and heavy - are the bottom of the barrel in talent, IMO.

 

Light Fly? Who watches this? And you know that you cant compare a light fly weight fighter with a cruiserweight or heavyweight.
I dont like to say this fly weight fighter has more talent than this heavyweight. Just because I find it difficult to compare these fighters. A heavyweight never can fight like a fly fight.
The LHW division has a great talent with Cleverly. You guys will be suprised about this guy.

 

With all due respect to Bernard he really ought not to be anymore. Thwarting a young champ in Cloud is all well and nice, great for his legacy, but it doesn't mean he's still operating on a level that is among the pound-for-pound best in the sport.

Let's not forget how old and done he looked in the Dawson rematch, which honestly was a clear loss ignoring the odd scoring to get the MD. Dawson himself is going to have to score a timely decisive victory over Stevenson to state his case as being elite, after that awkward encounter at super middle. (which, granted, can't be held against him too much due the weight drain...but still...he was barely even competitive)

Lebedev was maybe the closest to an elite at cruiser, since YPH is so flawed. Had they unified, Lebedev would've embodied will triumphing over skill and proven the better man h2h. As it happens, fat old welterweight Guillermo Jones came along throwing everything into disarray. While a great personal accomplishment for Jones and memorable war, his stoppage of Lebedev has effectively branded CW a very weak division.

 

Sorry but that's ****ing ******ed and hypocritical in the extreme.

You can't hold the existence of separate classes for differently sized boxers sacred in one breath (for instance, distinguishing a light heavyweight from a heavyweight and thinking it perfectly valid to do so) and then decry the very same distinguishing applied to smaller men.

For instance, you say Cleverly is a great talent. First of all, I don't agree, but even taking it on its face and saying "Fine, OK, he is" for the sake of argument - surely you can't mean a great talent in the sense that he could put up a fair resistance to a Wladimir Klitschko.

"Of course not, IB, that's unreasonable, Cleverly is much too small for that - but proportionate to his size, he is very talented IMO".

OK, fine.

So, then it's equally valid for me to say "Chocolatito Gonzalez is much too small to compete directly head to head with Nathan Cleverly - but proportionate to his size (aka p4p) he is vastly more talented".

 

No you cant compare ****ing Fly weights with heavyweightsatsch Total different world.
And I never compared Cleverly with Wladimir so I dont know what you are talking about. And yes Cleverly is a talented fighter.
The P4P system is crap It is a hypothetical system were people can compare Welterweights (or even Fly weights :! with Heavyweights. Dont consedering that a heavyweight never can fight like a Fly weight. Or that he would fight different if he would be a fly weight.

"but proportionate to his size (aka p4p) he is vastly more talented"
This is like I said just hypothetical! Shrink Cleverly to the size of a Fly weight and who the **** knows how he fights!!!

I never compare heavyweights, cruiserweights or light heavyweights with Fly weights! I just dont think this works! If you think so ok. I compare these fighters with fighters in the same weight class or one above or under theire weight class. But not with fighters who fight 5 or more weight classes under theire weight class.

 

You're completely missing the point. You compare them with each other. I think you also follow super middle and middleweight as well.

It's only the ones under welterweight that you consider worthless, yes? Reason being none of them could hang with the big guys?

Well guess what? Even talented middleweights can't hang with cruiserweights. Even talented light heavyweights can't hang with heavyweights. The classes exist for a reason. You can't deem Cleverly "talented" using the same logic by which you dismiss the smallest classes, because he would lose by KO1 to probably 50 active heavyweights.

 

What?
No I just dont think we can or should compare light fly weights with heavyweights. Not because they cant "hang" with heavyweights or cruiserweights. Just because these guys dont even weigh the half of a heavyweight. And because of that a heavyweight never can fight like a light fly weight. And we also dont know how a heavyweight fights "if he would be" a light fly weight.
Maybe you can compare super middleweights with Light heavyweights. Or Cruiserweights with Heavyweights. But I dont think we should compare guys like Cleverly with guys who fight 13-14 weight division under him.

I never compared a light heavyweight with a heavyweight. I just say it is dumb (in my opinion) to say this light fly weight has more talent that this cruiserweight or heavyweight. I just dont think you can comper these guys and then make a statement about the talent of these fighters. THATS ALL.
Just my opinion. If you think you can do that it is ok. I dont think it works out.

 

So then you must think for instance the Val Barker Trophy is a worthless accolade?

 

You don't think it's quite obvious that someone like Brian Viloria is a superior boxer to, say, Alexander Ustinov?

Can we not compare Floyd Mayweather Jr. favorably against Enzo Maccarinelli?

 

Now you compare Viloria to a guy like Ustinov (not even a top fighter in the division). A guy who is a top fighter in his division with a guy who is not even a top 20 fighter in his own division.:!: There you could say one guy has more talent. Ustinov is not even a real boxer (coming from kick boxing).

I thought you would compare the top dogs of the divisions. Now Viloria with Wladimir. Or Viloria with Dawson.
To compare them both of them have to fight under the SAME CONDITIONS! So on the SAME WEIGHT! And WHO THE **** knows how Wladimir/Dawson fights if he weights 108 lbs and is 160cm big. This alone is very hypothetical! And for sure there is NO CLEAR answer. Or who knows how Viloria fights if he weighs 240 pounds.
If you guys think you can compare them it is fine for you. I just dont think it works. Just alone because it is VERY hypothetical!

 

I also think it is unfair to compare a fighter who is 200 cm big weighs 240 pounds to a fighter who weighs the half of that and is 160cm. In order to compare them in a fair way both of them have to fight under the same conditions. And to answer the question then is VERY hypothetical! because we dont know how this fighter would fight if he weighs 110 pounds and is 160 cm tall.
Thats why I think we cant compare them. I going to eat now.:good:hi:

 

The thing about cruiser there is no money in it and big fights out there! The thing about light heavy if your the best you can drop down to a supper middle weight fight and make money. More money is in the supper middle weight ATM. BTW going up from cruiser to HW is very hard to do. Now adays heavy is all about height. Not saying its always been like that Mike Tyson has proved that. Cruisers that made it in the heavys are Haye and Evander and people doubt them at heavy.

 

CW is one of the most irrelevant divisions out there.

 

Thats why Bellew lacks power at LHW. Hes a CW but the money in the division is ****. David Haye had all the belts at the division but still didn't have the money as people with one belt in other divisions.