Current Ring Magazine Larry Holmes interview

Agreed, and I'll chime in on your conversation with Stonehands.

You and I have already determined that we are the exact same age, and frankly, I've noticed a difference in people's attitudes from when I was growing up 20 years ago. Sure, we had attitudes and foul mouths, but usually only during confrontational situations. Today kids are swearing or smack talking in regular conversation without any apparent reason. Additionally, the vocabulary and speaking abilities of the average teenager are attrocious. They often pause between every sentence with an " uh " or an " um ". Its really quite bad. It also doesn't help when you see a 30 year old celebrity like Floyd Mayweather get in another fighters face at a press conference and say " you're a ****ing ***** " the way he did against Oscar.

 

Mendoza, saw the interview in the Ring Issue in Barnes & Nobles a couple nights back. It was good stuff. Interesting too, what he said about being Ali's sparring partner.

 

...........If he was offered $1.5 million more for far less risk, he'd have been an idiot for not fighting Frazier.

Fighters don't make their plans around what a bunch of people sitting in an internet forum deem is legacy-worthy. Holmes is above all a businessman. Any sane businessman would have done exactly what he did. Does fighting Frazier instead of Page lessen his ranking? Sure, you could definitely argue that. The point is, when you're the one staring and extra mill and a half in the face for far lesser risk, you're trying to tell me you'd say, "no thanks; I'll take the enhanced legacy, thank you."? Gimme a break.

 

Well, I'm sure there would have been a fair number of fighters who would have felt compelled to take the legacy-enhancing fight instead of the easier payday fight. Some fighters have a stronger desire to prove their worthiness and to fight the best available opposition than others. In Holmes' case, he was already a multi-millionaire who had been champion for many years. You would think that taking $3-million to fight Page wouldn't have been such a bad thing. He would have significantly elevated the status of the second half of his championship reigh, and he would have silenced many of his critics. How much money did Holmes need? He could have fought Marvis Frazier a few fights down the road even - maybe Marivs would have been built up even more - and made more money. Holmes blew it by not fighting Page.

 

Exactly. I have noticed a change in attitude and cultural values since I was in elementary school and even junior high school. When I was a kid, you wouldn't find too many kids and teens walking around just talking foul for the sake of talking foul. Back then, there seemed to be more of a fear of offending the adults with whom you were interacting with. Today, whether I'm standing in the grocery store line or just out walking through a store or the movie theatre, young kids - 7,9,11 - are walking around with "f this" and "f that", totally unconcerned that many of the adults in the area are hearing them. It's pretty sad.

And don't get me started on the driving. The attitude and bad manners you see in everyday life are just as prevalent on the road!

 

.........In Holmes' defense, he never made his motivation out to be anything more than money. They're professional fighters, that's the gig. I mean, if you were offered two jobs, one much easier than the other for a lot more money, which would you take?

How much money does one need? Ask that of any rich person; they always hunger for more, and you'll still be left scratching your head as to why. When Donald Trump or Bill Gates rakes it in, we (well, many) applaud their business acumen. When a fighter tries to do the same thing, the winds change. We boxing nerds (and I use that term affectionately) want pristine records laden with opposition that would make God quiver in his boots or we're not satisfied. Even then we wouldn't be.

Perhaps Holmes sees the situation a bit more clearly.

 

Sure, but if you do that, then don't whine like a little ***** about "no one respects me!" when you fight bums and drop your championship belt for that. Because Holmes just couldn't stop doing that for years..... and years...... and years. He called it out on himself.

I don't think a true champion should act like that.

 

.............This is true. Good point. Of course, he would then turn around and claim he didn;t care what anyone thought. Who knows. The pragmatic side won obviously.

 

So you'd say he should put money before a mandatory earned defense (And a commitment) and therefore the entire Heavyweight title and it's prestige? He sold out and gave up the title for $1.5mill.

 

........I'm not necessarily condoning anything, just playing the devil's advocate here. From a purely business point of view (and money is the reason they all fight after all), it made sense. He was smart enough to realize that alphabet titles meant little and that everyone would consider him the real champ anyway, so no real risk there in that regard.


As for legacy and prestige, well.......I honestly believe finances meant more to him than legacy. I think that's true of more fighters than many here would prefer to believe.

 

Well to be fair, Larry always felt he was used and i think was jealous of the fact that others made more money than him while he worked every bit as hard. For instance, i think he always had a dislike for Foreman because he was popular (second career) and made more money.

I can't really blame him as a person for taking an easier fight with just as big a pay-roll, but when we asses the "greatness" of a fighter, it obviously suffers a bit.

 

I'll never forget hearing Jennifer Lopez ("J-Lo") in an interview a few of years ago. She sounded intelligent and spoke properly. I saw her again soon after that on MTV, and suddenly every sentence is punctuated with "know what I'm sayin'" and instead of saying "ask" she's saying "axed". It is a sad state of affairs when successful stars are purposely mutilating English to sell this "Jenny from the block" nonsense.

It makes me sick. Do you know why kids wear big baggy pants that droop down past their underwear? It started in urban neighborhoods --guys who went to prison had prison clothes that were always too big. Kids emulated that. So, here in America ex-convicts are celebrated as "O Gs" and everyone under 35 wears droopy pants. John Wayne is long gone. Now it's Tu-punk Shakur who's emulated.

Twenty years ago, most kids would swear among themselves but they'd watch it around adults. Now being obnoxious is encouraged in the media -in songs, in videos, on TV, in movies, --in freakin' cartoons! I'm fed up and have since taken up the mantle of the manners avenger. I go right up to them on the train or wherever and tell them to watch their language when there are small children around or old folks around. If they get stupid and they're male and over 18, they get threatened.

So, if I suddenly stop posting, it'll probably be because I got shot.

 

I hate the way things are getting too, and I'm younger than you. I use guys like Marciano as role models.