Well VK had that 4 year retirement, and WK for the most part clean up the divsion in thsos 4 years. You dont return from 4 years and get to be number 2 out of no were imo. And beating a fat Sam Peter didnt do it for me imo.
Beating a 27-0 (24) top ranked American and a highly ranked Cuban on top of this does though in this era.... Vitali and Vlad are the two top fighters in the Heavyweight division, if we want the World Heavyweight Champion then either the brothers need to fight each other, or one quits...
You can solve this mess so easily by recognizing the oldest title belts only, the WBA and the WBC, and not recognizing any of the other belts. That's what I do. Why? Because that's what we always did. When the IBF first announced its champions I was unfazed. I have never recognized the IBF as anything. Holmes was the champion whether he was WBC champion or not, because he was the linear champion. Neither the WBA nor the WBC are linear titles. They are simply the oldest of the two organizations, both emerging around the same time, and both growing out of the older system. Joined together without a linear champion seems sufficient to identify a new line. It's called unification. OR if the WBC champion beats a fighter who becomes the WBA champion, or vice-versa, then you have your new linear champion in the WBC champion. OR you could even add this: if the WBA champion retires, or vice-versa, then you have a new linear champion in the WBC champion. The new WBA champion must face the WBC champion to have any legitimacy, or vice-versa. Bam. Done. Over. Problem solved. Boxing goes back to complete sanity. This is the way it was for decades and all you guys scratching your head over this create this problem for all of us by failing to follow these simple rules. Sorting out this mess is completely in the public hands, and all they have to do is, not return to, but simply recognize the way we have done things for nearly a century. Put Chageav and Vitali in the ring together and you have the world champion. Anybody who wants to be recognized as the champion, will have to fight the winner.
Holmes beat the former undefeated champion on his comeback and held a victory over his fellow alphabet title holder (Mike Weaver), thus he became THE World Champ after beating Ali. If Vlad or Vitali beat a comebacking Lewis, then I too would rate either as THE champ...:good
No, if Wlad or VK beats Lewis, they would NOT be champ imo. Might as well crown Tiger Jones World Middleweight champion after he beat Robinson.
But Wlad all ready defeated Chagaev before VK beat this so called unbeating unproven 27-0. VK didnt earn his number 2 imo. Perhaps the win over Gomez, but not relly last nights fight base on who he beat. He got the 2 from media because of beating over the hill version of Peter imo. Wlad all ready prove his lineal before VK can lay a claim imo.
Blame Larry Holmes for putting the IBF on the map. I dont think the WBA should have a right to be consider part of the lineal thing because of recent actions over the last ten years. Lewis unifys title. A month later they strip him, and before you know it, Holyfiled is WBA champ again. Than Jones Jr defeats Ruiz, and wam, Ruiz is WBA champ again. Toney is WBA champ, but turn into a nc, and Ruiz is WBA champ again. Than Valuev and the Chageav mess over who the so called REAL champ is. The WBC has not been doing any better imo after Lewis retire.
There has been no World Heavyweight Champion since Lewis' retirement so a victory over Lewis would legitimize a successor. The Robinson situation was different in that Turpin and Olson clashed for the vacant Championship some 18 months before Robinson came back.
The WBA has been the King of boxing corruption for 47 years, not ten. And their Daddy, the NBA were arguably worse!
A few issues about prescidents Lineage was initialy established by the unification of the British and American heavyweight titles. In all lineage has been established twice by this mechanism, and claims for lineage based on it have been put up on other ocasions: Mace Allen Sullivan Mitchel Killrain Smith (claim evapourated after Sullivan beat Killrain) After the British title declined in significance lineage was traditionaly established by a showdown between two fighters seen as the top contenders. Often the criteria by whichg they were selected was dubious as they were not always nominated by any sanctioning body: Fitzsimmons Maher (evapourated when Corbett came out of retirment) Hart Root (only stood the test of time with a measure of luck) Schmeling Sharkey Walcott Charles Moore Patterson Frazier Ellis (evapourated when Ali was able to come out of retirment) Holmes Norton Where does this leave the curent crop? Today neither the British title or the American title are held in particularly high regard. Obviously any credible title claim today would have to be established by a faceoff between two top contenders or unification of the belts. The fight between Vitally Klitschko and Corrie Sanders could be recognised as a fight for the lineal title as it was more credible than Hart Root. We could then regard Vitally Klitscko as relinquishing the title when he retired after the Danny Williams fight or retaining it to the present day, since neither would be inconsistant with previous practice. If we accept that Vitally Klitschko ceased to be the lineal champion after the Williams fight or thing that he never was in the first place then we could regard the fight between Wladamir Klitscko and Ruslan Chagaev as being for the vacant title. Again it would be consistant with previous practice.
Lineage is a some what naive way of claiming a champion, as stated on many an occasion, lineage throughout history has many different precedents depending on the situation we are in. The are no rules, it can be spun many a way. I just think THE vacant Heavyweight Championship fight is created by the top two generally recognized heavyweights fighting each other, thus at the moment that means Vitali/Vlad.
Well Haye has retained his status as having the third most lineal titles on the planet, with his victory over Valuev retaining the USBA, Mexican, IBC and World Cruiserweight lineal straps. None of the others have had their records updated on boxrec yet, but i do seem to remember that Joseph Chincangu fought somebody and lost. Also, one post on ESB said Malik Scott recently fought and lost a fight but no mention of either fight is on boxrec or elsewhere that i can find. Can Anyone else find or confirm these results. Known fights that are coming up include the much awaited Oleg Platov title defence against Cengiz Cok in early December and of course the Chambers - Vlad unification title which will see one champion bow out of contention as a real World Champion claimant.
Wlad has the IBF Vitali has the WBC David has the WBA We need a series of fights with all three belts on the line. I don't accept Wlad as linear for beating Chagaev...... who didn't even try and had been inactive for quite some time.
David never won the WBA, he was given it by politics and beating one of the guys who previously lost. His lineal claims are in other titles.
