Cus D'amato - No Swarmer Beats Foreman?

George liked to set the “tone” as early as possible. LOL.

In the opening round of their fight, he also hurled that “weakling” Chuvalo half way across the ring into the ropes.

Was it not enough to know that George could punch a hole through your brain than to also have the concern that he might just pick you up as and when pleased and pile drive you into the canvas?

Perhaps it was all just the younger Foreman’s attempts at “affection” and “cuddles” but he didn’t know how to properly express himself until he became big loveable George in his second career. No? Okay, he was just rough SOB back in those days. Ha.

 

I wasn’t alive during Liston’s reign and not so much cognisant of boxing during Foreman’s days as Champ.

It’s interesting to self reflect and wonder if you would’ve fallen in with the majority in so far as the negative views surrounding certain Champs in their given eras.

Watching everything available on Liston I really do think I would’ve liked the guy - but sometimes that’s easier to say in hindsight - perhaps a “romanticised” view of times, mores etc., you were not born into.

Still, I think I would’ve liked Sonny just as much as I do today. Likely Foreman also.

There is a degree of irony making a villain of someone who participates in sport of which the prime intention is to knock your opponents block off and in which being “mean” plays no small part in your success - some calling it “killer instinct” in a more positive light. LOL.

 

He couldn't do that crap against Ali. Ali put him in a headlock in the first round of their match. Ali might not have been as strong as George but he was every bit the grappler.

 

True, Ali knew how to grapple and leverage himself for max. effect - and though not as strong as George, still very strong in his own right. It was just one of a number of attributes that he employed to stunning advantage in Zaire - which was a multi faceted, beautifully strategised and brilliant performance all in all.

 

If you watch football Hall of Fame center was Dwight Stephenson was like that. He was smallish at 258 pounds but he could stand up 300 + pound linemen.

 

As far as ring iq and adaptability it was perhaps not only his but the whole of heavyweight boxing's greatest performance. That said, of course the 60s Ali was far more Artful.

 

Yes, in the Frazier rematch, Ali really channeled the Mother of Smother, Jack Johnson. Lil Arthur would’ve been proud.

Joe was no longer King Pin or the mountain top to climb, Ali treated and fought the match in transient fashion - a stepping stone to Foreman - just do what you have to do to win - I think the holding squelched Joe significantly, particularly if you view its “necessity” to Ali winning as being proportional to the ridiculous degree Ali employed the clinching through out the bout.

We can say in some instances that certain, illegal practices made no difference - but the mere employment of said practices is at least a starting point for “begging to differ”.

Of course, Slappy Happy Carlos Padilla was having none of it in Manila - we might’ve seen more clinching in that fight by Ali without Mr Padilla’s “hands on - hands off!” policing.

Maybe Ali can blame Padilla in part for the extreme punishment he took in that fight. Ha.

 

Sorry, but I just read an earlier post stating that Futch had to drag a singing Joe Frazier off stage.

That’s hilarious and Futch might’ve had more than one reason for doing same but only told Joe it was because he needed to get back to the gym and train. LOL.

Joe Frazier and The Knockouts. Larry Holmes and Marmalade. Wow.

One might ask - Who told those guys they could sing?

However, the more appropriate question might be: Who would tell those guys they couldn’t?

Imagine if you were part of an intimate audience, gathered for a live singing performance by Old Stoney Face Liston?

Even if his vocals were excruciating as nails scratching down a chalk board, I’d be whistling and clapping the sh*t out of my hands, calling out Yo, Sonny my man!

 

Think you might like this then.

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Frazier also mentioned in his autobiography how most fighters when they became champion started slacking off or losing that motivation and he gave examples in Tyson, Douglas, and Bowe but said he and Holyfield were exceptions. Obviously not the case since he took time off after FOTC with lightly regarded contenders.

 

Great stuff! Thanks.

Sonny was very agile and fast for a man of his size and heavy musculature. He was like a machine on the skip rope - I can see how that was thing to watch just in itself. The Night Train was a good tune to train to. That was a clip on the Ed Sullivan show, right? I’d love to see the full appearance.

As for Sonny’s foray into commercials, tv series and movies went, I believed they also called him One Take Liston. Not because Sonny nailed it first time, every time but, you know, who’s going to pursue artistic perfection at the risk of their own health? Beautiful Charles, thank you, that’s a wrap!

 

Heard Night Train was Sonny's favorite song when skipping rope. His appearance on the Ed Sullivan also featured The Beatles, so someone must have a full recording somewhere.

He'll give you that stare if you tell him to do another take that's for sure.

 

I still cannot believe so much faith is put into a Cus D’ Amato quote that nobody can find…

we can’t know if it’s even true.

 

I had many conversations with Steve Lott this past decade and he swore he never heard Cus say anything about avoiding Foreman's style. Regarding Don King - Lott HATED King and never even talked to him once.

I can send you the conversations I've had with Steve over the years if you like?