Cus D'amato - No Swarmer Beats Foreman?

Lewis, Tyson, and Bowe ARE some of the biggest hitters in heavyweight history, at least with their best shots. Evander survived them in 6 out of 7 bouts. And the one stoppage Evander was diagnosed with Hep A after an uncharacteristically bad performance.

I would say that Evander's "Warrior Ego" is another of these boxing myths. He was an infighter and combination puncher often against taller and rangier opponents. His hand speed was good but not amazing. He wasn't Larry Holmes, and it's strange people expected him to box that way. He was excellent at protecting himself in exchanges and maintained composure when hurt.

For a boxer with a supposed reckless brawling streak, Evander was only stopped twice in a long career, and in one instance he was in his 40s and coming off shoulder injury, the other he was diagnosed with illness.

I feel Foreman's big swings would provide opportunities for Evander's right lead. Prime Evander's hard nosed defense, grit, stamina, and physicality would prove interesting. He wore down some big strong men.

Evander deserves consideration as a man that could take down prime Foreman. But is he a swarmer....I always felt a prime Evander was more of a HW Duran than the rangy boxer he's billed as and expected to be. He became more of a spoiler as he declined.

 

I agree, The only man who could stand in front of Foreman and attack would be Liston

 

Boy I totally agree, Joe Frazier never had a chance and I always wondered why they let this fight happen as I don't think you'd have found 10 knowledgeable people who thought Frazier could win. As a cash out fight better matches could have been made for Joe

 

Swarmers don't stand in front and attack. That's a brawler.

The idea behind swarming is to avoid rangy attacks and score on the inside. Angles can be utilized, as can stick and move tactics. For instance, Lomachenko is actually a swarmer.

 

Holyfield under no and I mean no circumstances could have slugged it out with a young George Foreman. And that so called declining Ali didn't slug with Foreman and he'd have taken Evander apart too.

 

Dempsey didn't face the best fighters of his
own era, now we are to believe he beats
Foreman.? And where did you see this great technical
innovation from him. Please enlighten us all, I want
to see it myself.
Dempsey at his heaviest was about 190 lbs ,
he may have been a shade taller than Frazier
and Tyson , but he didn't have their bulk and
their physical strength.
Foreman lifted Frazier off his feet with a punch
Frazier was 214 lbs . What would he do to
Dempsey.
And if you don't believe their are psychological
aspects to boxing, that can be exploited , especially after watching
Tyson bite off Holyfield's ears (Yes plural)
Than maybe you're not as wise about
boxing as you seem to think you are.

 

Evander would slug it out with young Foreman and I believe would have success in doing so. His defense in exchanges is the best in HW history. If Evander jabs with Foreman he loses.

 

Nobody ,not even an Eddie Futch and Ray Arcel cloned chimera, could be that wise!

 

I don't see Evander going "head to head" in a reckless way that would lead him open to Foreman's best shots...

Which I think there seems to be confusion. Foreman was a long range fighter, that's why he pushed all the time, he wasn't an infighter. He dominated Frazier in that first fight from the outside with his jab and big swing uppercut. Evander has a nice surprise for guys that try to uppercut from the outside.

 

I seem to recall Evander slugging it out with Bert Cooper and landing on the mat. George cuts the ring off, lands his thunderous jab and in an exchange Holyfield will fare far worse than George. Holyfield hit an old George with everything but a claw hammer and he went nowhere. Evander said ,that old slow as an oil tanker Foreman hit him the hardest he'd ever been hit. A 25 year old George was much faster and far,far meaner.

 

Frazier winning the second fight is ridiculous take and I watched the fight last month. Foreman wasn't in any danger of losing this fight at any point.

I really don't know why people keep saying that Foreman "struggled" with Frazier, Qawi or even Gullick. He controlled these fights all the time.

 

The technical innovation from Dempsey can be found in his book and on film. The man invented modern swarming and Tyson learned much from him. As for not facing the best, he beat the lineal HW Champion. That's definition of facing the best. If you want to talk color line ..that's just bull crap derailment of a good thread.

Eh...I don't believe Frazier was truly lifted off his feet by the punch. He was stumbling around, lunging, and it was cool visual. That said if Frazier was 205 he may not have found himself in that predicament. Neither would Dempsey.

There are psychological aspects to boxing but the "bully Tyson" narrative is crap, I have been clear on that.

 

Lol. You would be wrong as Evander never landed on the mat.

Yes, Evander vs Cooper was a great brawl. Evander got buzzed, shelled up, and was then pushed into the ropes by a punch to the back of the head. It was ruled a standing 8 count. He recovered and dominated with ripping combos.

I'm sure everytime Evander went up against someone that could bang you could point to this instance and proclaim "if Cooper buzzed him...so and so would send him into space"
..and you would be wrong.