Cutting off the ring

Roberto Duran
J.C. Chavez
George Foreman
Jeff Fenech

 

Foreman, then Qawi while I was watching boxing. I was no longer a fan when Fenech and Chavez came along, so can't comment on either.

I don't buy Duran as belonging on that list. It took him 13 rounds to finally catch up to Vilomar Fernandez with body shots (and some like Howard Davis, Jr. thought Vilomar had the better of El Cholo to that point), he never caught up to Ed Viruet in 25 rounds, having to settle for points wins on aggression against an ******* opponent just looking to get under his skin (successfully, I might add), and SRL II & III are not in his favor either so far as effective ring cutting is concerned.

Through all of George Foreman's entire competitive life, the only opponent who actually decisioned him over the distance by outmaneuvering him was Tommy Morrison in a shocking display of counter-clockwise improvisation not utilized by Ali.

Muhammad didn't move counter-clockwise much, southpaw Karl Mildenberger being the pre-planned exception in Ali's career. 11 years later for Richard Dunn, Muhammad had figured out how to make things much easier for himself in dealing with a southpaw, going directly to his right lead when deciding it was time to unload. Ali was the first heavyweight champion to defend against a southpaw, and did it twice, overlooked trivia in his dossier.

Larry Holmes appeared much faster, more comfortable and natural flying around the ring counter-clockwise in Shavers I than Ali did against Mildenberger, a key reason I think Foreman would have more trouble cutting the ring off on Larry than he did Muhammad in Kinshasa. (SRL also circled right a great deal for an orthodox boxer.)

Qawi was excellent at keeping his lead foot between his opponent's feet, especially in the rematch with Saad Muhammad. Michael Spinks had to execute his plan with Eddie Futch brilliantly to outmaneuver Qawi, essential viewing for anybody wanting to know what a great boxer Michael was. Ring cutting between two master ring cutters isn't expected to be a factor in head to head match-ups, and that was the case when Foreman and Qawi squared off, but that may well have been when the most ring cutting skill ever shared the squared circle. (Dwight actually stood up to George very well in that one, but Foreman dropped him to the floor with an excruciatingly flagrant and illegal kidney punch which had the ultimate result of making Qawi quit. I thought at the time that a DQ against George would not have been inappropriate, but Carlos Padilla merely penalized Foreman the round. Dwight did not make anything about it afterwards however, conceding he wasn't a match for George's power.)

Jimmy Young did not outmaneuver George, but unloaded his quick double jab while retreating, utilized superior hand speed, smothering and timely clinches. He didn't improvise out of necessity as Ali was quickly forced to make use of his toughness in Kinshasa, but boxed as one might expect Jimmy Young to box in that situation. (Ditto Benitez with Duran.)

Personally, I think Foreman was the best I saw in any weight division at ring cutting. During George's youth, I don't think Morrison's chin would have allowed him to last the distance. In Peralta I, Greg actually stood his ground well and even made Foreman move around on him. I think that's how Liston would have beaten George, stand his ground, neutralize Foreman's physical strength by keeping George on the end of his longer jab, puff Foreman's face up and tire him out from long range. Sonny demonstrated with the 5'9" steel chinned George Johnson that he could punch effectively in retreat, but he had plenty of experience dealing with taller opponents as well when enjoying the lower center of gravity, and ring cutting wouldn't be any more of a factor for Liston-Foreman than it was for Foreman-Qawi.

 

Great post. I agree that Duran doesn't really belong this list. He gets included based on his performance against two fighters who did not attempt to use much lateral movement against him (Buchanan and SRL in Montreal). Folks ignore the many other obvious counter examples where he struggled or failed to contain mobile opponents.

 

Smokin Joe and Big George may have been the two best I saw. Roberto against Bizarro was anything but cutting off the ring but I do have to give him some credit in the Buchanan go, the only reason he landed all those right hands as Ken came up from his bobs was he was in front of him to do it. Another who comes to my mind for cutting off the ring was Beau Jack.

 

Beau Jack is a great citation. I'm not really on board with Frazier because of Ali II, Bonavena II and Bugner. I believe Foreman would have forced Ringo and Bugner into a fight as quickly as he did Ali in Kinshasa. Dino Denis was a match for George's height and reach, and a young guy who tried sticking and moving as Ali was supposed to do, but couldn't avoid trading with Foreman for long. George doesn't get the credit for taking on Denis he deserves, and dispatching Dino the way he did. (Gerry dealt with Dino in a very different manner, just standing in mid ring and dwarfing him with his height and jab until hooking off the end of it.)

Against Liston, maybe Denis could have pulled it off until the final bell, but it wasn't the way to last the distance with somebody as efficient at ring cutting as Foreman. Now, put Smoke in there with Dino, I think Joe would have simply rushed him down, but it still would have taken Joe longer than it took George. (Even at 38 though after a long layoff, Frazier had the stamina necessary to take round nine over Cummings.)

 

Henry Armstrong

 

I thought that Julio Cesar Chavez could be hit easily, but he was able to wear down his opponents without expending a lot of energy or throwing a tremendous number of punches. He did this by cutting off the ring well and throwing accurate, telling punches to both the head and the body.


- Chuck Johnston

 

I wouldn't put Duran on an elite list as far as cutting off the ring but at lightweight he certainly did it and did it well. You can't just look at fights who ran around the ring lasted the distance and lost the fight you also have to look at fights who were forced to fight Duran's fight against their wills. De Jesus III is a perfect example. Most fights at lightweight never went into their fights with Duran with the thought of out bombing him, rather they pretty much all tried to out box him and a few went into the ring with the sole intention of trying to survive and go the distance those are usually the hardest to stop because they try their best not to engage.

 

I thought Tyson was pretty good at cutting off the ring.

 

I don't think Chavez was easy to hit zat all. At least not that clean or flush.

He stayed low and made himself a smaller target, slipped punches well and rolled with them effectively too. He mixed offense and defense well.

 

I agree, Armstrong lived on his opponents chest. Always pressuring, incredible pace and in their face.

Armstrong cut the ring off with very simple techniques but we have to factor in his crazy workrate and iron chin.

He would lead with the left hook and follow the punch in, obviously he threw bombs and in seemless combination so most guys are instantly on the defensive. His half steps were beautifully timed just as his punch lands he takes that step shielded by his own punch.Since he throws in waves of punches, all those half steps add up and hes in your grill.

Hank used the touch jab to great effect. He is always first to jab even if its light, measuring and setting up his roaring offense. By touching he is always within range and the opponent is reacting to him.

Hank uses that crouch so well, duck and as his torso comes up he is already throwing. Constant forward momentum.

Hanks fights show him rarely out of position. He will be on your chest, its only a matter of when, and I mean literally 20 seconds tops that type of crowding and pressure is the top elite. He did that for nearly 15 yrs every fight which is incredible.

 

Duran was soundly in command of Vilomar Fernandez at the time he KO'd him.

 

Kenny Norton, like Joe Frazier, was an apt pupil of Eddie Futch and was very effective at cutting off the ring.

 

I don't think so. He tailed a dancing Ali in their second bout w/out hardly throwing a punch over the first five rounds, essentially ceding the bout, and I agreed with Arthur Mercante that Holmes should have had their match locked up on the cards after the first ten rounds. I think Ken was a terrific boxer when flatfooted in mid ring, and very effective countering off the ropes, but he didn't force Ali into a fight with the kind of speed Foreman did with Ali and Denis. For my money, Norton just took too long to apply pressure like that, and I don't know how he'd have done with Denis. (Of course he beats Dino, but very possibly has to go the distance to do it. Foreman and Frazier were punching while coming forward. Norton didn't pull the trigger much when advancing or retreating.)