Dan Raphael on Margarito Ban

Maybe he was paid off by someone to turn his head...

 

Strength does not equal punching power, and as far as I'm concerned is way overrated in boxing, so like I said, I'd take the plaster wraps over some extra strength if I was going to cheat because I know for a fact plaster wraps would actually work. They both did cheat. You're right about that, but all cheating is not the same. Rabbit punches, low blows, holding and hitting, etc are all against the rules as well, but I don't see anybody asking for a ban when a fighter does any of those. Anyway I don't make the rules and I'm not responsible for enforcing them, so why are you telling me that Shane needs to be reprimanded?

 

:roll: The stronger you are, the harder you can hit. That's just common sense big guy. Vargas had the same effect during his own fight against De La hoya. It's not just a phenomenon that happens in boxing, all these star baseball players can blast balls 500 feet for the very same reason.. they're pumped up and made stronger through use of steroids.

You're obviously a backer of Mosley as you can't see the clear trail of evdence infront of you.

Because he broke the rules and cheated by using steroids in a fight you dumbass! Geez!atsch

 

Well in all fairness J.R. Mosley is guilty of using epo which is for endurance. If he was using the "Clear" I would stand corrected.


Your point about being stronger and hitting harder holds water because I remember reading on ESB how Vargas was wrecking sparring partners leading up to the fight w Oscar.

 

The stronger you are the more bulk muscle you carry, which ruins your fluidity and takes the snap off your punches. The higher you go up above your natural weight the less effective your power is because NATURALLY bigger guys hit harder as a whole. RJJ was carrying a ton of extra muscle when he went up to fight Ruiz, so why couldn't he knock him out with all those flush shots he landed? Why doesn't James Toney knock anybody out at HW when he's on steroids? You can't grow punching power. Punchers are born, not made.

I am a fan of Shane Mosley and I already agreed that he cheated. What do you want me to do about it?

 

And Oscar wrecked his ass. I didn't read that on ESB either, I saw it.

I started hitting weights pretty heavy for a while and put on about 15 extra pounds of muscle. I felt stronger, sure, but I also felt a little sluggish and I didn't notice any change in my punching power. I remember Roy Jones saying basically the same thing when he moved up to fight Ruiz.

 

:huhNot sure what the first paragraph is meant to prove but...ok?

Thats all good and well for you but Vargas was fighting in his 154lb weight class so the extra muscle that slows you down argument really does not come into play in this scenario.

Also for the record, bigger does not always mean stronger.

 

What do you do if you want to get stronger? You build more muscle right? Well, you can build as much muscle as you want and you're still limited by your tendons and ligaments and your bone structure as well as your ability to quickly move that extra muscle and your technique (how much leverage you can put into it, etc.). Bigger does not always mean stronger, that's correct, but for the most part naturally bigger guys are stronger and hit harder, which is a big part of the reason they have weight classes. My point is that you're born with a certain potential for punching power and that's all you get, and I haven't seen any convincing evidence that steroids or even regular strength training can increase it all that much, if at all. Paulie Malignaggi can take all the roids he wants and he'll still be feather fisted.

 

Ok I see your point. i wonder though as with punchers, home-run hitters are born and not made, the evdidence is there that roids did enhance the players natural strength to compliment the natural talent to produce insane results ala Bond,Giambi, A-fraud and clemens

 

I think hitting baseballs is definitely different, but it's funny because pitchers really aren't throwing any harder than they were 40 years ago as far as I can tell, so I think that's limited in the same way as punching power.

 

The punishment is ball-less. Pathetic.

 

I lift weights and have trained in and out of gyms for years and the bulk of my muscles didn't affect the snap in my punches at all... but that's beside the point.. don't try and turn this into a philosophical debate over muscle mass and punching power because you don't need it here. The evidence that roids helped Mosley and Vargas become stronger and hit harder is right there before your eyes. All you have to do is compare their previous fights to the ones with Oscar and it's clear as day. They were backing De La Hoya up and hurting him with every big land. YOU don't admit that because you either didn't see the Mosley - Oscar fights, or you're just showing your plain bias here trying to defend your guy.

No kidding.:roll:

The ****?! I don't want you to do anything about it. Did I ask you to you imbecile?!

The 2nd Mosley - De La Hoya fight occured in Las Vegas and what I want is for the comission to stop playing favorites here and be fair and turn that "win" into a no contest for Mosley and suspend him accordingly... and if they go by what they did to Vargas a while back that would mean a big 9 month suspension would be in order.

 

I saw Mosley beat DLH convincingly the first time and win a very controversial decision the second (the fight he and that Conte homo both said he used EPO for), and according to Conte the EPO **** that he gave him was strictly for increasing his stamina (which I didn't think Shane ever had a problem with, nor did I think he would need some **** like that against DLH because DLH always fades down the stretch). Vargas got knocked the **** out and hadn't fought DLH before, so I have nothing to compare that fight to.

I haven't seen any convincing evidence that steroid use does anything for your punching power, just as I haven't seen any that it does anything for a pitcher's throwing arm, and until I do I'll have to assume that it doesn't.

You were talking to me as if you think I had something to do with them not punishing Mosley when I actually think he probably should have been punished in some way, but they didn't actually catch him so I guess they can't do **** (or maybe just don't want to).

I think the only thing we're actually disagreeing on here is the effects of performance enhancers on punching power. Like I said, show me some real evidence and I may change my mind, but for now I think plaster wraps would be far more effective.

 

Lets just hope that some stricter controls come out of this if nothing else. Margi's been caught and punished but how many other fighters may in one way or another illegally have their hands wrapped?

I mean the official was standing right there and apparently argued the wraps were ok everytime Nazim asked for them to be re-wrapped! Christ if that's not incompetence I don't know what is.

Sounds like the Balco issue is still going on so for all we know Mosley may well come out of this with some kind of ban also but we will have to wait and see.

 

Margo could have been wearing brass knuckles and not beat Mosley that night. I'm also not convinced yet that the type of wraps they are reporting equals much on the way of added impact in a fight.

It's still cheating, but so is hitting on the break, rabbit punching, holding, low blows, elbows, headbutting, and so on... yet we applaud guys like Holyfield or Hopkins who bend the rules inside the ring all the time... no one is asking for them to be banned for life.