Darcy versus SRR

Surf-Bat · Feb 11, 2012

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thistle1 · Feb 11, 2012

I don't he was honestly trolling, I believe he was wrongly thinking that by comparison America - the Land of Milk & Honey had everything they ever wanted - such was the believe. While everyone else lagged behind and had backward hard lives.

I don't think he was goading, just comparing the New World with the still primative Old World.

Surf-Bat · Feb 11, 2012

thistle1 said: ↑

I don't he was honestly trolling, I believe he was wrongly thinking that by comparison America - the Land of Milk & Honey had everything they ever wanted - such was the believe. While everyone else lagged behind and had backward hard lives.

I don't think he was goading, just comparing the New World with the still primative Old World.
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Fair enough:good

But he would do well to educate himself on a bit of American history before tossing out blanket statements like that. The reason so many great fighters came out of America was because life in many cities WAS rough, as far from milk and honey as Steve Buscemi is from bedding down Megan Fox.

thistle1 · Feb 11, 2012

Surf-Bat said: ↑

Fair enough:good

But he would do well to educate himself on a bit of American history before tossing out blanket statements like that. The reason so many great fighters came out of America was because life in many cities WAS rough, as far from milk and honey as Steve Buscemi is from bedding down Megan Fox.
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:good I know that and for the most part it is the case world wide and age to age!

Liechhardt · Feb 11, 2012

SRR outpoints Darcey. Les would've come home strong but Ray to fast.

Liechhardt · Feb 11, 2012

And i'm Aussie.

steve w · Feb 12, 2012

Best show in town ! Klompy vs sinn, both have points but, bobby, wins gold medal for sledging.

Bugger · Feb 26, 2012

Neddy Smith said: ↑

Darcy would be too strong for Ray.
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faaaaaaark me mate, how many alts do you have?? :rofl

Bollox · Feb 26, 2012

Neddy Smith said: ↑

Darcy would be too strong for Ray.
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Did you kill Sally Huckstepp?

gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

klompton said: ↑

I find it funny when some try to pretend like Darcy didnt have every single possible advantage going into his fights, and somehow that doesnt raise questions...

You do realize that Chip had been outboxed and stopped BEFORE he ever met Darcy right? Buck Crouse might have something to say about the comment that Darcy thrashed Chip like he had never been thrashed before, seeing as how Crouse beat the dog **** out of Chip years earlier (not to mention the film of Darcy-Chip clearly shows Darcy having plenty of trouble with Chip over the first five rounds). That would be a much younger Buck Crouse than the one who took bribe from Snowy Baker to lay down in the second against Darcy. Stadiums LTD had to do damage control after all since they were still trying to repair Darcy's invincible image at home after the KO Brown decision.

Its funny that some have such a high opinion of a fighter who has so many questions sorrounding his career especially given the wealth of anecdotal information about bribes, thrown fights, gambling, and fixed decision which he benefitted from. Ill leave it at that because this subject has been done to death but anyone wanting to dig deeper into Darcy's supposed greatness will have no trouble finding more than a few warts which likely would have been exposed in the USA had he lived to fight here.
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i never saw this quote before, """"""" Buck Crouse than the one who took bribe from Snowy Baker to lay down in the second against Darcy. Stadiums LTD had to do damage control after all since they were still trying to repair Darcy's invincible image at home after the KO Brown decision."""""""""""""
This is a lie, here Klompton just makes an unfounded lie, where did he get this so called information from ???????????

gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

klompton said: ↑

My point about Chip, and all of Darcy's opponents for that matter is that they were fighting literally THOUSANDS of miles, weeks, and an ocean away from home, in front a completely pro Darcy audience, eating strange food, in a strange land,

So lets go back, and examine the referee in question and the two fights directly in question, NOT the Chip. In the first Jeff Smith fight Smith was giving Darcy hell.

In the rematch Smith was fighting low out of a crouch and was warned for a low blow at the end of the first round. In the second he was disqualified for a low blow which he denied. This is a guy who had fought the best fighters in the world across several continents and had never been DQd and would never be DQd again, in fact his style was repeatedly lauded (and I agree as Ive seen him fight) ))))

For a start,,, what is this strange land and strange food he talks about ???????? Austrlia was anglo saxon like America, our food is very similar and so is our cilture... strange land.... rofl

There is no contemporary report that ever said Smith was "giving Darcy hell"" all reports I read said the opposite.... Klompy hogwash.

He says he saw Jeff Smith fight ??? then where is this mysterious film, I would love to see it..... anyway Smith has been called a dirty fighter
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gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

klompton said: ↑

I have that report and fail to see how it deviates from my own. Darcy's corner threw in the towel and quit based on a low blow that only Dave Smith saw. Yet somehow the TKO or KO win for Smith was ruled a DQ??? That little trick worked for Georges Carpentier on occasion as well "Oh Im in trouble, this guy is tough, I better try to win by DQ or lose by DQ rather than get stopped." Furthermore, you are quoting from a newspaper that even Darcy's biographers admit was in the hip pocket of Huge Deal McIntosh, owner of Stadiums. So if thats "as unbiased as it gets in Australia" then thats a better argument for me than it is for you.

Yes Smith was given the win. What was Baker supposed to do after Darcy quit? Somehow create a new rule designating a quitter the winner??? Its not like Darcy refused to fight and waited for a DQ win (which is what Ruth Parker and Rafe Champion believed Baker was waiting for in order to award the fight to Darcy), they threw in the towel! If I have to spell out for you that there is no going back in that era from throwing in the towel or the sponge or whatever you Aussies wanna call it then we can end the discussion because you obviously dont seem to understand the significance. That it was it, there was no going back at that point, they quit and that was final. Baker was as dumbfounded as anyone else that Darcy quit. What were they going to do? Issue forth another serious cluster **** like the decision in the McGoorty-Smith bout 9 months earlier (see you cant take these things out of context). A decision so bad that everyone at Stadiums Ltd tried to disassociate themselves with it and fired Arthur Scott. Well, thats the Australian version of events, but as usual there is another side to that story. The fact of the matter is that Eddie McGoorty was a bigger name than Jeff Smith. McGoorty was expected to beat Jeff Smith and consolidate his claim to the "Australian Version" of the World Middleweight Title (whatever the **** that is) this would set up the big matches between McGoorty, Smith, King, and Darcy who was quickly becoming a star for Stadiums. When Jeff Smith completely outboxed McGoorty and Arthur Scott, playing along with script awarded the bout to the loser, it threw everyone in an uproar. Baker and Stadiums distanced themselves from the house referees decision and fired him but he was back working for them in a year or so, just long enough to let the dust settle. Now you spin that there was outrage over the Smith-Darcy decision. Really? Where was it? The only outrage I can find in any of the ringside accounts comes from Dave Smith. The worst that can said is that people stayed in the arena for half an hour "DISCUSSING THE OUTCOME." Nowhere does it say that a massive throng was clamouring for the official to change his decision and if that were the case wouldnt that mean that there was indeed a massive pro Darcy, anti-Smith audience (seeing as how even pro-Darcy rags saw no foul blow) and wouldnt you say this is just one of the several disadvantages that faced American fighters in Australia?

The Chip fight keeps getting thrown around as the be all and end all proof of Darcy's greatness. It was a good win and one which Im glad happened because it allows us to see film of Chip. BUT, Chip was not the best middleweight in the world at that time. Period. In the United States, regarded far and above Chip was Mike Gibbons, who whether you choose to believe it or not, Darcy refused to fight unless he was paid $45,000 when he came to the USA. So he essentially priced himself out of that fight. Yes its true that Chip went ten with and won a ND over a still developing Greb prior to fighting Darcy but Greb wasnt the best MW in the world at that time either and was still at least a year, maybe more, from beginning to enter his prime. Prior to Greb Chip had struggled with or lost to Jimmy Clabby, Jack Dillon, Sailor Grande, Buck Crouse, Jack McCarron, Leo Houck, and that was AFTER he had been knocked out in one round by the absolutely pathetic Al McCoy. Chip was a good fighter, a brawler with a wicked punch, but lets not pretend that even in his prime he was unbeatable. He wasnt. He was just in the right place at the right time to take the title from a fading, out of shape, and disinterested Frank Klaus and in the wrong place at the wrong time to lose the title to the nearly worthless Al McCoy. One could easily argue that at no point in his career, even during his reign as champion, was Chip the best MW in the world. That was a deep deep era with a lot of good and great fighters. Chip was simply one of best, not THE BEST, ever.

So lets just put all that aside though and answer me one simple question: In an era when a fighter had travel weeks, not hours, just to get to Australia, be sorrounded by strange people, in a strange land, and eating strange food that you arent used to, and fighting in front a pro Darcy crowd, at an arena owned by Darcy's promoter (who is also the partner/employer of Darcy's manager), where the referee is the brother of Darcy's manager, etc. are all of those things NOT a disadvantage? I just want the rational people here to read your response because I know what they will say. People today ***** and complain about going over and fighting in Germany or wherever and let me tell you travelling and living conditions today are a hell of a lot better and easier than they were 100 yrs ago and its also a lot harder with international television, sanctioning bodies, etc to pull the type of **** Stadiums was pulling down there. So just go on and argue for me that all of those things arent disadvantages. Say what you will about Svenn Ottke (and you can say a lot) at least when he fought and won all of those shoddy decisions his managers brother wasnt the referee and there wasnt a special track cleared around the ring so he could walk around unmolested and shout instructions on how the ref should officiate...

Like I said before, I never said Darcy was bad, just that there were a lot of unanswered questions about him. I freely admit that he could have come over here and cleaned up the middleweight division and maybe have been regarded as the greatest MW ever, he might have done so at LHW also. He may also have come over here and been thrown in with Jess Willard immediately (which was the plan for some of those promoters he was attached to) benn knocked out and sent back home in disgrace. We dont know. Lots of questions...
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A pretty ridiculous bunch of assertions, but here he clearly says this era was deep deep in terms of depth yet Darcy beats all but McCoy and Gibbons, why didn't Gibbons come to Australia and reap the rewards of better pay and real fights with real judges ??? doesn't compute.. and to say Australia was a strange land with strange food is stupid, no country was more alike to the USA as Australia was in culture and food............................ another thing,... he claims Darcy QUIT in the 1st Smith fight... BS... he actually fought on for the rest of the round only to be stunned by Dave Smith throwing in the towel... Les never quit... ever and Klompton saying this is disgraceful slander... and unsupported by facts

gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

Bobby Sinn said: ↑

Klompy, you should thank DPW for kindly taking it easy on you.
Get one thing immediately clear. Smith had not won a single round of the first fight. You still sulk like a 3 year old against Harold Baker. The facts in DPW's post above spells it out quite clearly that NO FAVOURTISM was afforded to Darcy. The Dsq came about through not retireing, but disputing the referee's lack of acknowledgement towards the low blow. Harold baker was not one to take **** from Dave Smith.The referee can, and will call the fight closure in which ever manner he so deems. Many ringsiders and sportswriter's actually felt Darcy was unjustly Dsq due to the towel being thrown in due to frustration, more than a deliberate attempt to end the bout. Either way, Baker took action against his authority as referee being undermined, promptly ending the bout in favour of the American. That same American was in a strange land etc etc etc etc

The Chip fight is a second example of no favourtism. Harold Baker let the combatents fight with their extremely oposing styles, with no interferance at all. Again you sulk that this is the only example of no FAVOURTISM. If anything, this bout is an even weaker example of NO FAVOURTISM towards Darcy; compared to the first Smith fight anyway. Again, DPW has spelt it out quite clear as to why this bout was unbiastly refereed. Again, you look like a ****ing idiot.

You keep harping on with the same sulky tune... 'the fighters were in a strange land, with strange food, with hostile crowds'. Actually, most of the Americans who entertained themselves in Australia earnt well, lived very well and returned more than once, took up residence or spoke highly of the place for the rest of their lives. I could name up dozens who relished the lifestyle and offerings of Australia. Yet, you attempt to make it sound like hell. Well Klompy, I dont recall any Americans arriving in 1917 to witness a bunch of white folk kicking a recently murdered negro's head around like a soccerball. Sadly though, thats exactly what Darcy's fiance encountered when arriving in Memphis, May 1917.

Poor Klompy, he just cant accept that his American brother would eventually be Dsq for low blows in the second bout. Well Klumpty Dumpty, from ringside to the bleachers- this time everyone heard the painful THUD as Smith landed solidly on Darcy's groin guard. Baker immediately halted proceedings and awarded the victory to Darcy. Why is that unfair?? Low blows are Fouls,, and Fouls result in Dsq. Its strange that you seem so frustrated with the Australians way of handling such affairs. Tell ya what ****head, if you would like to see some lame ****d refereeing, take a look at the Dempsey/Willard massacre. Had Darcy handled any American on Australian soil in the same manner in which Dempsey handled Willard, poor Klompy would have a genuine reason to pick bitterly; but no, he just continues to step on Darcy's legend... attempts to anyway.

Poor Al Lippe and Jeff Smith. Fancy signing a contract that stipulates that the powers that be (Stadiums Ltd) can, and will revoke any match payment, when and if they see fit. What an outrageous contract to sign. Oh, hang on, these contracts continue to operate throughout the USA and Europe to this very day. SHOCK HORROR!!! Smith and Lippe should be grateful that their purse was donated to the war effort. That the only input either would make to the first Great War. But still, Darcy is the slacker????

Baker had his own path that went around the ring?? Amazing. Can you please provide me with a sentence, a motion of the hand, a word or anything for that matter, that had been recorded or reported by any sportswriter pertaining to Snowy's instructions for Harold that altered or systematically interferred with any fight outcome. See if you can answer that with dignity.

Well Klompy, your agenda is shot to pieces. You've made a complete **** of yourself again. Throwing false accusations around in regards to Darcy.. you call yourself a Journalist?? Really?? You'd have been perect working for the Baker/McIntosh Hate Machine that vented on Darcy post Oct 27th, 1916. Other than that, you fail. :hi:
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This was a brilliant rebuttal

gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

klompton said: ↑

The first quote is from nearly a year later and once again its from someone in Darcy's entourage, not an independant source.

Ruth Park admitted in her book, largely based on Nilands work, that they had no primary source for the story.

Like I said, it could have happened but the entire story is unreliable and if it took place we simply have no idea how or why it went down. I have no problem believing they sparred because for a very brief period they were in the same stable. I also wouldnt be surprised if the sparring session ended early. I would be very surprised if it was a cut and dry knockout, and even if it was, it was sparring. The saying goes, you get your licks in sparring so you dont have to get them in a fight. And finally, even if Darcy knocked Fulton down or out, it still doesnt mean he would have gone on to do the same to Greb, Dempsey, Wills, Willard, Levinsky, or even Al McCoy. As stated above you can go through his record and see that plenty of people went the distance with him. Its not like, even at MW (the accepted limit of which he didnt have to make in Australia) he was knockout machine.
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There was never an original claim that Fulton was knocked out, just that he quit on his stool and that Darcy was simply too good. The spar actually happened but this was just an exibition, too much has been made of this....... I realise this is an old thread but today I was reminded of this thread and have been entertained by it, Sinn and Klompton made this a lot of fun.

gregluland · Aug 15, 2015

klompton said: ↑

I recognize that 160 was an accepted weight limit in the United States LONG after Darcy died. Certainly not at any point while he was living. That is the reality of the situation and you seem to be unable to cope with reality when it collides with your little dream world.

So do you deny that you cannot be trusted? I theorize that it has to do with your genetic makeup. You are descended from criminals and as such lying comes naturally to you. Either way youve spun several yarns on this thread alone, illustrating either a gross ignorance of the sport outside of the relatively minor sphere of Australian boxing (and I would argue your ignorance is well illustrated in that small section of study as well) or you simply cant accept when the facts are thrown in your face so you fly in the face of reality and recede into your fantasy world, truly the land of OZ.
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why didn't you just measure Sinns skull ?????????? this post is a joke .... right ?

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