David Benavidez is...

last night they interviewed benavidez in combate ESPN , he said the usual, that he is being avoided, the only one that can beat canelo, etc. . the truth is by the time this fight could be made, 2022 at the earliest, benavidez will be a light heavyweight already. i suspected that he was doing a massive effort in cutting weight to make the limit and last night it was confirmed. also benavidez is unknown and doesnt have a fanbase at all so his leverage against canelo would be non existent. last night they said he isnt even in canelo radar though

 

Compubox numbers can be very inaccurate and misleading. And compubox numbers do not factor in the power and cleanness of a shot. If a fighter throws 10 punches in a row while his opponent is using head movement and upper body movement to slip the punches, each of those 10 shots might have glanced of his shoulders and counted as all hits, and then with one hard counter punch that lands flush, that one hard flush shot is better than the 10 previous glancing shots combined. That's why you can't use Compubox numbers to score rounds. Also looking at total punches landed can be misleading too beacuse you could have 6 clear round where one guy clearly outlands the other then 6 toss-up rounds where the total landed punches are very close.

Canelo doesn't typically outland his opponent because he doesn't need to. His single shots are so impressive and eye-catching they're better than the shots that land on him, even if more land on him, they are less effective in totality because of his upper body, head movement. Fighters try to outland him because they know they can't match him punch-for-punch so they try to outwork him and hope that judges reward quantity over quality. Also, variety of punches, like more body shots, more hooks or uppercuts vs straight shots can also offset being outlanded in total shots. So you're falling into the trap of basing your arguments on Compubox numbers, which can't be relied on. And further, you're claiming that he's winning rounds because he's more marketed and institutionally favored, rather than understanding the sweet sceience and how rounds are scored, not by counting punches but by judging the quality of each landed punch and who has more clean, effective punches that stand out throughout the round.

Don't you think there's corruption in terms of punch stats as well? There's no accountability whatsoever on who is counting punches and generating those numbers. In the case of the first Canelo GGG match, HBO's live punch stats in round 5 had Canelo landing more punches than GGG, but in the final punch stats it was flipped, with it saying that GGG outlanded him that round. We got no explanation whatsoever as to how that occurred. The problem is you're relying on Compubox (two different people sitting there and guessing as to which punches landed for each fighter) as the crux of your argument that the judging had to be corrupt. In the case of Canelo vs Mayweather, though it was nearly 2:1, the power punches were more comparable. Further, while I disagreed with giving 6 rounds to Canelo, the fact is that more than half the rounds were extremely close, while there were several rounds that Mayweather dominated. Mayweather definitely outlanded Canelo overall, but on a round by round basis, there were certainly enough rounds that were close enough to give 6 to Canelo. Remember Kovalev vs Ward. Ward got the decision by winning a lot of close rounds. Sure the Compubox numbers were way closer than Canelo vs Mayweather, but again we can't rely on Compubox numbers. It's guesswork at best and inherently subject to corruption, especially when one fighter is expected to win like in Mayweather vs Canelo. But the same principle applies, the rounds Kovalev won were clear, while the rounds Ward won were close and debatable. If you give the fighter a lot of close rounds, he could win despite being outlanded significantly.

He's never drained a fighter down to a catchweight from the weight they had been fighting in a title fight. Plenty of fighters fought at catchweights. Examples - Pavlik - Taylor 2, Pavlik Hopkins that no one complained about it. The rehydration clauses vs Fielding and Kovalev were justifiable as he was moving up a full weight class that he had never fought at before. In the case of Jacobs, there should have been a rehydration limit as it was an IBF Title fight. Short training camps was out of his control. "Next level juicing" is complete nonsense. You hold things against him that are not even the least bit out of the ordinary.

 

What do you call comfortably out landed? 4 jabs on average per round? Do you factor in the entire scoring criteria? Clean Punching, Ring generalship, Defense, Effective aggression?

In the first Golovkin fight GGG landed an average of 4 punches more than Canelo, which were jabs. Canelo landed a few more power punches, but Canelo's power punches were all cleaner and harder with the exception of a couple good ones Golovkin landed. Fight a draw.

In his fight with Trout, Canelo was outlanded by an average of 2 punches per round, also jabs as they recorded each fighter landing virtually the same amount of power punches, again, Canelo landing the more telling punches, even scoring a KD. Canelo win.

In the Lara fight, Lara started off good, out boxing Canelo, but after round 4, lara went on full survival mode. Lara landed an average of .83 punches per round, which were also jabs. Canelo landed 36 more power punches to Lara's 46 more jabs. Canelo win.

As you can see, Canelo gets outlanded by just a few jabs in those close fights, but Canelo lands more power punches, and always the cleaner more effective power punches.

If you focus on a single scorecard the you're just looking at one thing, not the entire story, that is why there are three judges. Many fights not just those Canelo fights have weird scores by a single judge, but usually the right person wins because there are two other judges.

 

Ignore.

 

In the first Golovkin fight, Canelo landed a few more power punches but GGG vastly outlanded him with jabs. Golovkin was chasing him around the ring and backing him up almost the entire fight and won 8 rounds clearly, 4 rounds were close and I gave 2 to each. There was nothing close about the fight whatsoever. I have no doubt that if you switched the two performances around, it would have been an overwhelming win for Canelo. In the 2nd Golovkin fight, GGG fought in the backfoot as Canelo did in the first, schooled him and still lost. Even giving Canelo 6 rounds was corrupt. This is what has always happened when there is a highly marketed A side fighting at home. The referee and judges are not independent from boxing politics and know what side their bread is buttered on. If Canelo fought on the backfoot and outlanded his opponent with jabs while his opponent landed more power punches and pressed the action, Canelo still wins a decision. A justification will always be concocted by officials and fans, provided they aren't knocked unconscious.

 

I don't think Golovkin was pressuring Canelo as much as Canelo just chose to fight off the back foot and use his superior skills making Golovkin miss a record near 500 punches, and landed at a slight lower percentage despite throwing 200 punches more.

Golovkin outlanded Canelo, but it was jabs, and a lot of them weren't that effective, AND it was by about an average of 4 jabs per round.

Canelo showed better defense, he also landed the cleaner punches, imo he chose to fight off the backfoot as a tactic, and landed more power punches. He also made Golovkin fight very timid, and we saw Golovkin for the first time not commit to his punches and hide behind the jab.

Imo Canelo won, but he ended up getting the draw because Golovkin got the benefit of the doubt in the very close rounds.

 

from what i've seen tonight, caleb plant beats him

 

I agree but thought Ramirez was moving to 175. No way Canelo fights him at 175 and I don’t blame him. Plus, Ramirez is likely to face Bivol, a good fight. I’m a Bivol fan but it’s a tough fight for him. Hope all of these guys fight in 21 so we still aren’t speculating next year.

 

Benavidez is a beast he gives canelo his best fight along with Bivol.

 

No way! Ramírez gets hit too much.

 

Offensively, DB is a gifted combination puncher with elite level speed, accuracy, and punch selection. He also has a superb engine.

Tall and angular, he's not particularly fleet of foot, and while defensively responsible, he's not overly elusive. Alternatively, I don't think he hits as hard as advertised. Does he have bite on his punches? Absolutely. But I don't think he's a true one-punch power guy.

All in all, he's a tough out for anyone at 168-175.

 

From what I saw tonight, Ellis vs Plant is a better fight than Benavidez vs Plant.

 

Not as much as Benavidez.

 

Benavidez is a tough good fighter no doubt, but from what I see he's there to be countered, he carries his hands fairly low in exchanges.

 

He’s really good, I like him a lot, he gets hits a lot...