David Haye vs Joe Frazier. Who takes this one?

It may be negative but it doesn't mean he has bad movement.
Negative strategy yes... proof of bad movement no.

I boxed competatively as an amateur for 11 years and have been watching boxing for around 20 years.
What Haye does is stay out of range forcing his oponent to commit to attack. providing a chance to slip, counter, turn and move out of range again. When up against guys like Wlad and Valuev who have massive reach advantages and want to get a piggy back as soon as they get close means those tactics will always look negative against those guys as even after slipping the shot he is still outsode of his own range to get his shots off.... again... not proof of bad movement. You're slating a physical attribute based on his mental weakness. The 2 do not go hand in hand

 

I think they do. It's all about application in the ring. And Hayes movement hasn't allowed him to counter over reaching opponents as well in practise.

Nice breakdown by the way, post more often please :good

 

but i would say that moving around in circles then throwing a flurry then getting out isnt good movement. its not leading your opponnent into a trap imo

 

Fair point. Hopefully after taking a few flush shots from Wlad he may have a bit more confidence in his chin and won't be so scared of being in range of his opponent quite so much.
I'm starting to side with your way of thinking now. He does have poor movement, good mobility but his movement is technically flawed against guys with a longer reach.

Thanks man. Will try more often... all depends if my boss can see my screen or not :good

 

Same here...half day today though :yep :good

 

Haye corners himself a lot as well.

 

That's not what i see when i watch Haye. I see him moving laterally outside of his opponents range, waiting for his opponent to move into range or commit to an attack before letting his hands go. He waits for his opponent to move into his range where he can then look for countering opportunities or catch his opponent coming in. Which takes your opponent by surprise and also their balance.

For a prime example watch the gif of the 1st knockdown against Ruiz. He backs off, slips 4-5 punches, turns, moves out of range, backs up 2 1/2 steps (the 1/2 is important here) waits for Ruiz to take 3 steps then lets his punches go. Ruiz gets dropped because he is off balance moving forward with his feet under him.

In contrast. Against Wlad and Valuev he was applying the same tactics but when he slipped there jabs he was still a foot outside of his own range so would then have to lunge in to get off with his own shots. In these fights he should have been slipping and then turning his opponent to force his opponent to move into his range but instead he chose to take the safe option and just get straight back out of range :tired boring and negative but understandable

 

Shows he has low ring iq/was happy to survive against Wlad. Haye beat Valuev boxing as an amateur (styleswise)

Against similar sized guys? Agreed, a lot more effective. Sadly, Ruiz showed was a sloppy finisher Haye is!

 

What is it with David Haye?! I don't think he'd have much of a chance in this one; Haye is one of the better (but certainly not the best) heavyweights in a very poor era, he has no right being even mentioned in the same breath as Frazier IMO. Frazier is an ATG who mixed it with the best in their prime. What has Haye actually achieved? I've enjoyed some of his performances and I am looking forward to the upcoming fight against Chisora, but beating Frazier? Come on!

 

Frazier is THE STYLE Haye has gone on record saying he finds the most difficult as well!

 

Agreed.
I find his finishing a bit strange to be honest. Throughout the fight Haye displays good shot selection, timing, accuracy and patience but as soon as he see's his opponent is hurt he does the windmill, i don't get it. One day he will get Charles Brewered... Be winging away with his opponent in trouble and get dropped by a survival mode hook.

 

Mike Weaver'd :deal

Valero was the same. Eager to get rid of the opponent through fear of being hit IMO ;-)

 

Too

Just saying

 

:yep

 

He WAS "all that" @ CW.