David Tua versus Jim Corbett

Pretty devastating response and dead on (in my opinion) ..

 

Many of the records of the old timers are incomplete. This is especially true of fighters who fought in the 1800's.

Below is a list of three combined reported sources for Corbett's ring record. Based on the combined lists Corbett had 64 fights!

Take note, Corbett was 59-0-3 at one point before losing to Bob Fitzsimmons! Only a true boxing master could achieve such a record.

** the 59-0-3 record assumes the W vs Peter Jackson as listed is really a draw. Otherwise its 60-0-2** Be sure to read the key at the bottom of the page.

Many W's are really Ko wins for Corbett.


Appendix 1
FOR THE RECORD: The following is the complete list of bouts for James J. Corbett and Charles Mitchell according to the Ocala (Fla.) Evening Star of Feb. 2, 1894. Additional results from the Ring Record Book and Boxing's Top 100 haw been included on this list. In some cases dates, first names and other information is not available.

JAMES J. CORBETT:
San Francisco, Daw Eiseman, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim Hare, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Ed Siossen, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim McCarty, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Chosinski, one round, W, (a)
San Francisco, Bob McCord, one round, W
San Francisco, Billy Welch, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, George Maxwell, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Tom Pollard, four rounds, W
San Francisco , John Dwyer, one round, W
San Francisco, Ed Rose, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, L.R. Fulda, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Jack Burke, eight rounds, draw, (8-27-88 )
San Francisco, Mike Brennan, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, Con Riordan, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Captain James H. Daley (also Daily), 4 rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, four rounds, W, (5-30-89) (a)
Salt Lake City, Frank Smith, sewn rounds, W
Salt Lake City, Duncan McDonald, eight rounds, W , (b)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, three rounds (some sources say four), W, (7-15-89) San Francisco, Martin Costello, four rounds, W
San Francisco, George Atkinson, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Prof. William Miller, six rounds, W
San Francisco, Larry SUlliwn, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Frank Glowr, four rounds, W, (6-30-88 (c)
San Francisco, John Donaldson, eight rounds, W
Portland, Ore., Daw Campbell, 10 rounds, W, (7-29-89) (d)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, 27 rounds, W, (6-5-89) (a)
New Orleans, Jake Kilrain, six rounds, W, (2-18-90)
Brooklyn, Dominic McCaffery, four rounds, W, (4-14-90)
San Francisco, Peter Jackson, 61 rounds, W, (5-2-91) (e)
Milwaukee, Ed Kinney, four rounds, W, (10-8-91)
Philadelphia, Matt Donovan, one round, W, (3-20-89) (f)
New Jersey, Peter Courtney, six rounds, W, (9-7-94)
Philadelphia, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) (g)
Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W


Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W
Madison Square Garden, William Speflings, one round, W, (h) Madison Square Garden, Bob Goffey, one round, W
Madison Square Garden, Joe Lannon, th.-ee rounds, W, (i) Hartford, John McMahan, two rounds, W
Albany, Jack McDonald, one rounds, W
Columbus, Jim Hughes, two rounds, W
Butte, Mont. , Jack Grace, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Mike Olson, one round, W
Tucson, Mike Sullivan, two rounds, W
EI Paso , Jack Donnelly, two rounds, W
New Orleans, John L. Sullivan, 21 rounds, W, (9-7-92) Jacksonville, Charlie Mitchell, three rounds, W, (1-25-94)
New Orleans, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95)
San Francisco, Tom Sharkey, four rounds, draw (6-24-96) (j) Carson City, Nev., Bob Fitzsimmons, 14 rounds, L, (3-17-97)
New York, Tom Sharkey, 9 rounds, L (foul), (11-22-98
Coney Island, Jim Jeffries, 23 rounds, L, (5-11-1900)
New York, Kid McCoy, five rounds, W, (8-30-1900)
San Francisco, Jim Jeffries, 10 rounds, L, (8-14-03)





KEY CORBETT NOTES:
(a) correct spelling is Joe ChoYnSki, first fight is also called a no decision by some sources; 5­30-89, stopped by police in the fourth round; 6-5-89, stopped ChOYnski in the 27th, and 7­15-89, won four-round bout according to 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time by Bert Sugar.
(b) also called a draw by some sources.
(c) also called a draw by some sources.
(d) called a draw after 10 rounds because Corbett failed to score a knockout as agreed.
(e) called a no contest by referee Hiram Cook, no punches were thrown in the 61st round, fight took four hours and 10 minutes, also (and more reasonably) called a draw by some sources .
(f) also listed as Mike Donovan and called a sparring session or exhibition by some sources. (g) site also listed as New Orleans, McVey listed as Jim and John by different sources.
(h) result is similar to one reported for 2-16-92, a one-round victory o\ler one Bill Spilling in Rochester.
(i) also called a no decision by some sources
(j) also has 1-round KO victory o\ler Emest Roeber on 1-3-97, no site, listed as an exhibition.

 

The plot thickens...

 

Tua is about 5'9" tall with short arms and a limited delivery method. Unless he catches Corbett early, he's getting out boxed.

 

These are exhibitions and sparring matches Mendoza is off the charts with Jeffries opponents.

 

Corbett's reach was 73", Tua's 70".
Corbett was ko'd by Fitzsimmons whose reach was 71.5"
And on the verge of being kod by Tom Sharkey when his second entered the ring and got him dsq'd.
Sharkey was 5'8" and his reach was 70'5"

Bang goes another of your ****ytical boxing studies ! :-(

 

Mendoza, what you've got there is a hodge-podge of names. Nothing's in order. You've got amateur fights listed. You've got a ton of exhibitions listed where he fought a handful of guys on the same day for a round or three. That's why no dates are listed. Other sites list dates of those exhibitions.

You've got the Peter Courtney and John McVey fights listed as real fights - meaning they were title defenses. The Corbett-Courtney fight was filmed. THAT certainly was not a world title defense. Thomas Edison just paid them to perform so he could use his new "invention."

Corbett and Donaldson "fought" in a touring play every night. (That's like saying Wlad and Lennox Lewis "fought" and Cassius Clay "beat" Anthony Quinn because they were featured in a boxing matches in Ocean's Eleven and Requiem for a Heavyweight.). He also sparred and competed in exhibitions with Daley for months.

Nearly all the Philadelphia fights you listed:

Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W

... Took place the same week during an exhibition tour in 1892. He wasn't competing in scheduled ONE ROUND fights.

His official pro log is 11-4-3.

If I listed every sparring and exhition and amateur fight Tua competed in, he have several hundred fights.

And if you think David Tua is losing to this guy - which you apparently feel was a world title fight - you're high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpDhbpmtpvo

Anyone who holds his hands around his waist, turns his head, closes his eyes and backs straight up to avoid a shot, is GETTING DESTROYED BY TUA.

You have to respect the pioneers of the sport. Without them, there wouldn't be a game. But compared to the top guys 100 years later, Corbett was an embarrassingly bad novice fighter who possessed technical flaws that generations of fighters down the road corrected.

Tua KO1 in 30 seconds or so.

 

Oh. The plot just got thinner again.

 

Corbett was at least 6'1" tall. Tua about 5'9" tall. Corbett has a 4" height advantage which shorted Tua range but there is more to the story. At least there more who understand boxing. Understand as you punch upwards you lose what I call striking distance.

Tua has massive shoulders but very short arms, so his effective staking distance is perhaps the worst of any ranked man over 200 pounds. The 70" reach for Tua does not tell the full story.

As for the others you listed, those guys had plenty of stamina, and greater speed in comparison to Tua.

If you saw Tua vs. Byrd, you'll have an idea on how Tua vs Corbett would play out, minus Tua's bomb, which won't be easy for him to deliver in this fight.

Now for one more. Didn't you say Joe Choynski was the era's hardest hitters? Yes-- you did. Well Corbett took many of Choynski's best, so his chin must be excellent. If you really believe that Choynski hit the hardest of the time line, then you can lower Tua's punchers chance.

BOOM.

 

Take them as face value who was better " news decisions ". Corbett didn't lose any of them. My point was Corbett was the better in over 50+ outings, and did far more than what Box rec will show.

 

They weren't newspaper decisions. They were exhibitions.

Nearly every fight you listed (conveniently leaving off the dates) as real fight is listed here, for example, as an exhibition.
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/corbett.htm

And that list I linked to isn't complete, either. But it provides dates to most of the "fights" you included.

You've essentially listed every sparring partner and exhibition (minus the dates) and tried to pass them off as real fights.

 

Everyone Tua fought was taller than he was. And Tua knocked out 43 men who were taller than him - requiring him to punch upwards.

BOOM:roll:

Compared to those who came a 100 years later, Corbett was a novice and terrible boxer. The film doesn't lie.

Tua KO 1.

 

This guy ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpDhbpmtpvo

Isn't beating this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mco5uCKOPyI

That's what happens when you back straight up with your hands where Corbett kept them.

Nobody did that to Ruiz before that, and no one did that to him ever again.

 

This debate is starting to look like a Tua-Corbett fight. :!:

 

Call them what you will, Corbett was the better in all of them.

Tua was out boxed for 11 rounds by Maskev who wasn't fast and had chin issues.

He was easily out boxed by Byrd, who started his pro career even lighter than Corbett.

If you think the Peter Jackson's ( Corbett won more of the rounds as described in a detail report I read ) Choynski ( Who was very quick and could hit ) and such would never do well post 1950, that's your opinion.

What I know if Tua could not box a lick. He was arguably the worst boxer ranked in the top ten in ( Insert your years ) and those who can move and box as Corbett could gave Tua trouble. Often fat with limited stamina, Tua's didn't help himself. In fact he punked out vs Chris Byrd, and didn't try much vs Lennox Lewis.

PS: You are aware the link you provided is Corbett just having fun with an over matched guy in the Eddison's Black Maria room. There wasn't a lot of room, and when the final round came Corbett knocked him out. The round you are showing likely not the final round.

I suggest you see Corbett vs Kid McCoy or Gene Tunney to get a better idea of his skill set. Or vs Fitz as 20+ minutes exist on a very blurry film.