David Tua vs Jack Dempsey

Oh no, you´re totally correct here! Could Jack Dempsey beat Charlie Zelenoff ?? Did he ever fight for the UBF ??

 

You use logical mistakes all the time, or you simply don't read my posts.

I never said that we can't assume how the fight would end because Tua never faced anyone below 190 lbs. My reply was connected to this quote:

"And he was never phased by anyone less than 190lb in his whole professional career let alone his prime."

I simply replied that he was never in situation that it was even possible. It doesn't mean anything else, it's you who draw some conclusions from my post. I didn't use it as an argument for Dempsey or against Tua, I simply stated the fact.

 

Nono, you´re totally fine!

So if Dempsey never fought for the UBF, can we say he´d beat Charlie backstage? Wilder for example did.

 

Fair enough. When you put it like that I can see where you're coming from and Dempsey UD isn't as farfetched as I initially thought.

 

Again, you use flawed reasoninig here because I didn't imply that Tua can't beat 190 lbs fighters... In fact, the situation would be similar if someone says that Zelenhoff never losing to 190 lbs professional boxer (I don't know if he did) means that it's unlikely that he'd lose to Dempsey. I was against this type of logic, you can't use something that never happened as an argument.

You can make a decent prediction based on what we have, but you can't say "Tua never faced 190 lbs fighter, so he never lost to 190 lbs fighter, so he'd beat any 190 lbs fighter". Do you understand now?

 

Sure, it's all speculations after all

I think that Dempsey from Willard fight would use movement and angles to counter punch Tua. Then David would tire in the second half of the fight and lose a decision. At the same time, Dempsey could just run into Tua like he did against Firpo and this would end up badly for him, because Tua was very powerful and durable.

I simply think that Dempsey had more tools to beat Tua in many ways. It doesn't mean that he would and weight disadvantage wouldn't help, but I think it's more likely that Tua beating Dempsey. Tua by KO is still quite probable preditction though

 

No, he wouldn't "stick and move on his back foot" to outbox Tua.
He'd circle and box with lateral movement and come in with angled attacks. Which is a style we've seen from him sometimes, on the available film. Dempsey was an agile fighter, Tua was more one-dimensional and flat-footed.

 

Srsly, I hear you. Also when you said "I simply replied that he was never in situation that it was even possible. It doesn't mean anything else, it's you who draw some conclusions from my post."
Its an nonentity => "Tua never fought a 190 fighter, (so .....?). Like Dempsey never fought for the UBF, (so....). Its a quotation for saying something, that means nothing. Its what they do in politics. Its called "empty words".

But @boxingforum24 indeed wanted to argue something. Tua fought like 22X boxers in average, beat many and lost 5, non by KO. Thats like 30lb more than 190.

He relied on a stoppage in most of his bouts, but went 10 rounds a couple of times. Ony two of his 68 went 12 or more.
On the other hand we have David Tua, who never got stopped in 59 bouts and winning/drawing 5 of them in 12 rounds.
From styles itself, I don´t see any advantage for Dempsey.

 

Please, explain me how Tua could lose to 190 lbs fighter when he never faced one in his career. That's just nonsense...

Please, keep in mind that I didn't use this argument. boxingforum24 asked me to show when Tua lost against 190 lbs. I replied that he never even faced 190 lbs fighter, so it's pointless argument. That's all and it has nothing to do with politics or "empty words". It's not my fault that you, like many other posters here, always try to find a hidden agenda in every post possible. I explained my position on this topic in different post, in that quote I just showed that using this argument doesn't make any sense. Nothing more and nothing less, stop trying to read in my mind because you definitely can't do that.

 

Tua losses the fight but hed be a lock in a pie eating contest

 

Dempsey stopped guys who were never stopped before, and won several fights on points too, if these types of stats and facts are supposed to mean something. Make of it what you will.

 

Tua by early KO

 

OK I'm back for more haha. @GOAT Primo Carnera has convinced me to keep fighting my case.

Facts:

Tua has never been stopped before.
Tua has never lost to anyone under 6'2"
Tua has never lost to anyone with less than 75" reach
Dempsey has been stopped before
Dempsey is 6'1"
Dempsey has 72" reach

Assumuptions:

Tua never fought any middleweights but its safe to assume he isn't losing to middleweights. In the same breath we could make the argument that Tua is not losing to any 190lb fighter. That was the angle I was coming from regarding weight. I wasn't trying to say prove something that obviously never happened. I just wanted to say it's safe to draw this conclusion from the data at hand.

Tua by KO and early.

 

Tua has basically lost to every kind of heavyweight at some point.

He has lost to opposition who did not hit particularly hard.

He has lost to opposition who did not have particularly good chins.

He has lost to opposition who did not have particularly good defense.

He has lost to opposition who were not particularly big.

Basically if the opponent was ranked in the top ten, then he was in for a tough night.

 

Dempsey's reach has been quoted as 76" and even 78"

No, that just means that you don't know what would happen if he fought a middleweight.

Do you think that Byrd would have lost to him, if he had come in at 190lbs?