David Tua vs Jim Jeffries

Let's be specific .. Tua could be outboxed by huge guys with big jabs , reach and movement like Lewis and Rahman ..the only guy that I saw trade w Tua and box was Ike who not only had an incredible chin but boxing skills as well .. Jeffries , from what we've seem, did not have that sort of speed or boxing skills .. maybe he did but we don't have the film .. he had a chin but it''s different getting hit by Tua than Fitz .. Jeff is too incomplete a picture to favor against Tua in my opinion .. I can see a Foreman or Frazier vs Chuvalo type finish here as is ..

 

Good post.

 

“Tossing his useless brother around”. LOL, love that description!

Also, during their fight, Jeffries and Ruhlin are subject to the same speed be it orig. or time corrected,

Jeffries looked notably slower than Ruhlin, particularly of foot. Ruhlin’s hands also appeared faster but he isn’t throwing much at the latter stages - the stages we see as per the available footage.

 

There is a verified primary report that Ruhlin was too ill to leave MSG that night ,spent it on an improvised cot with a Doctor in attendance as well as his manager.He kept slipping in and out of consciousness and was bleeding from the mouth nose and ears .The next day his manager Billy Madden had him conveyed to his own home inSouth Brooklyn for a period of convalescence.All this can be found in Fitzsimmons biography by Pollack and in The Fighting Blacksmith by Gilbert Odd. Fitz ko'd Ruhlin with a left uppercut which lifted him off his feet and deposited him sense less on the floor the referee did not bother starting a count but motioned Gus's seconds to come and carry him back to his corner where he remained for 10 minutes before being helped to his dressing room.

 

I agree Ruhlin looked faster going backwards than Jeffries did coming forward he also looked the better boxer.To my eyes at least.

 

Really interesting matchup. Tua would be hell on the old time wrestler - in close boxers of that era. Tua is a fireplug and no one held him in the inside effectively. Leaving only boxing from the outside as an option. Tua could really hammer from mid range with chopping left hooks and combos. I do not see an easy way Jeffries could use his immense strength , durability and stamina to his advantage. Jeffries would wear guys down, but I do not see that happening with Tua over 12 rounds.

I would say Tua wins on points or even late KO. Jeffries is better all around, but in this case styles make fights.

 

The Brooklyn Citizen- 11 Aug 1900 (page 1)
RUHLIN IS CHIPPER TO-DAY.
Story that the Pugilist Died of His Injuries Is False.
SPENT THE NIGHT AT BATHS.
This Morning He Went to Madden's Home—The Crowd of Newsboys and Others Gave Him an Ovation at the Other End of the Bridge—Believed to Have Been Over-trained.
Gus Ruhlin, the Akron Giant, who was defeated by Robert Fitzsimmon at Madison Square Garden last night, and for several hours after the fight was at times unconscious, and in great distress, is to-day out of danger. After he got to his dressing room last night he collapsed again, and became as unconscious as he was when the Cornishman put him to sleep in the ring.
His manager, Billy Madden, and one of his trainers, Charley Goff, put him into a carriage and took him to Everard's Baths in West Twenty-sixth street. After his arrival there he again became unconscious and as he did not revive with the application of the simple restoration at hand, Dr Guy D. Lombard was called in.
The physician remained with him until 4 o'clock, by which time he had permantly recovered consciousnes. The physician made an examination of Ruhlin and said he was in no danger but that he had better remain and rest until daylight. He said he was satisfied there were no internal injuries. The pugilist, he said, was merely suffering from shock as the result not only of the many blows he received in the solar plexus but also when his head struck the floor the last time he was knocked down.
Ruhlin and Madden left the baths at 6:30 o'clock this morning, saying they were going to Madden's home in Seventy-sixth street, Brooklyn.
A paper in Manhattan printer a story to the effect that Gus Ruhlin had died as the result of the injuries he sustained at the hands of Bob Fitzsimmon last night. Another paper published a otry of the Akron giant having left Billy Madden's houe on Seventy-seventh street for Philadelphia.
Instead of being a corpse, however, Gus Ruhlin was very much alive this morning. After he arose from bed, which was about 8 o'clock, he sat down to an exceedingly substantial meal consisting of a porterhouse steak and potatoes. He complained of no illness, and in fact did not seem to be disturbed in the least by the distressing ordeal he had just passed through.
At 9:30 o'clock Ruhlin, accompanied by Billy Madden, was seen at the corner of Seventy-seventh street and Third avenue. When a car bounded along marked New York, Ruhlin jumped on the step very spryly. He seemed as strong as ever.
At about 11 o'clock Ruhlin boarded Third avenue car going in the direction of Harlem. A number of newsboys at the corner end of the bridge recognised him and set up for a cry that Ruhlin was around and in a few minutes hords of these youngsters, as well as many other people followed the car and gave him an ovation. The defeated fighter spoke to several of his friends who noticed him and to them he said he felt in good condition considering the curcumstances.
Ruhlin's collapse, which is attributed by his attending physician to the severe beating he received, is looked upon by experienced handlers as a proof that he was either over, or undertrained. Ther former idea is the more believed, as it is said the strongest of men will give way after powerful exertion if they are over-trained. But Ruhlin is not the sort of man who worries over a defeat or a trouncing. He takes such events as a matter of course and then dismisses them from his mind. His most ardent friended who are in a position to know say that he was over-trained.

The Brooklyn Daily Eagle- 11 Aug 1900 (page 18)
RUHLIN ONLY BRUISED.
Loser Up and About To-day—Fitz Got $15,750 as His Share.
All rumors that Ruhlin was in bad hape as a result of his terrible beating at the hands of Fitzsimmons last night were set at rest by the appearance of the loser both in South Brooklyn and in Manhattan to-day. After leaving the Turkish bath in Manhattan Ruhlin went to his manager's home, in Bay Ridge, this morning, at 5:30 o'clock. He was around the house awhile and then he and his manager, Billy Madden, went to the other side of the river again to deposit their receipts on this fight. Ruhlin was badly bruised in many places and his face looked as if he had been sliding downstairs on it. His profuse bleeding during the battle worried his friends, but his manager declared that he did not have a hemmorrhage, as reported.

The World- 11 Aug 1900 (page 2) [extremely hard to read]
Dictated to an Evening World Reporter
BY GUS RUHLIN
I see I am dead or dying from the result of my fight with Fitz last night.
Well, I am not. I am [unreadable] all right, for Fitz gave me lots of fight and I think he can punch the hardest blow that ever landed on me.
I lost as you know. I did my best under the circumstances, but I was not in anything like the shape that I was in when I met Sharkey. I went sstale and the hard body blows I got in the second round took the steam out of me.
. . .
HOW A KNOCKOUT FEELS.
I didn't feel the knockout blow really, I couldn't even tell where it landed. The bright light disappeared and a dazzling flash seemed to replace it. My mind was clear and I could hear the shouting but I couldn't move.
The next thing I knew I was in the dressing-room. I did not fully regain my faciltied until I had come from the Turkish bath.
Now I realize my mistake in giving myself too much work I have paid the penalty which is defeat.
But I will meet any of the big fellows as soon as I have had a month's rest and will have $5,00 backing.
If Fitz will give me another chance I should be glad to meet him. If I do, I think there will be another story of the fight.

 

That's your definition of being,"up and about," is it?

 

You mean walking about town, speaking to friends?

From the articles includes

"A paper in Manhattan printer a story to the effect that Gus Ruhlin had died as the result of the injuries he sustained at the hands of Bob Fitzsimmon last night. Another paper published a otry of the Akron giant having left Billy Madden's houe on Seventy-seventh street for Philadelphia.
Instead of being a corpse, however, Gus Ruhlin was very much alive this morning. After he arose from bed, which was about 8 o'clock, he sat down to an exceedingly substantial meal consisting of a porterhouse steak and potatoes. He complained of no illness, and in fact did not seem to be disturbed in the least by the distressing ordeal he had just passed through.
At 9:30 o'clock Ruhlin, accompanied by Billy Madden, was seen at the corner of Seventy-seventh street and Third avenue. When a car bounded along marked New York, Ruhlin jumped on the step very spryly. He seemed as strong as ever.
At about 11 o'clock Ruhlin boarded Third avenue car going in the direction of Harlem. A number of newsboys at the corner end of the bridge recognised him and set up for a cry that Ruhlin was around and in a few minutes hords of these youngsters, as well as many other people followed the car and gave him an ovation. The defeated fighter spoke to several of his friends who noticed him and to them he said he felt in good condition considering the curcumstances."

 

Ruhlin did not go to the baths he spent the night in MSG on a cot, and the next day was taken to his manager's cottage in Brooklyn to convalesce.If you want to dispute this further take it up with Adam Pollack the author, whom I believe spends more time doing research and unearthing primary sources than any boxing writer I have ever read and I have 100 books on the subject.

 

Tua had a hell of a chin but his defense is over looked. At the very least it was better than Jeff's who seems to have been a Jason Voorhees type of guy that just absorbs everything you hit him with until you get exhausted and then knocks you out. That won't work on Tua and something would have to give at some point getting hit by such a hard puncher.

 

By the time he retired, they would also have seen Hart, Burns Johnson, Martin and McVea.

People who saw him from ringside, continued to rate him into the joe Louis era and beyond.

 

By the time he retired.

 

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According to what we have of Jeffries' fight record, that's not entirely factual. In Jeffries' case, for that era, that may not be the best argument against him.