David Tua vs Jim Jeffries

Johnson at that point had beaten Martin , McVea, Ferguson, and Munroe, so I think we have to conclude that Langford was up for a challenge when that card was printed.

 

Yes he was a leading 187lbs contender,what he wasn't was a 220lbs Champion!

 

Well he was obviously the best heavyweight in the world, with the sole exception of Jeffries himself.

 

I'd agree but the fact remains the size disadvantage for Langford was significantly less against Johnson than it would have been against Jeffries where he would be conceding around64lbs!.
Why you think it noteworthy that a 5 feet 7 inch 156lbs man decided not to challenge a 6 feet 220lbs one and use that to try and demonstrate how fearsome Jeffries was is really a stretch!

I repeat in1906 Langford was stopped by a welterweight!
Now who is pushing this?

 

Was this perhaps not only an attempt to wear the opponents stamina down for the very long bouts of the era, but also to preserve his hands so they had less of a chance to break or get dislocated while punching to the head? They had much smaller gloves too with less padding.

From what I understand, boxers back then would sometimes condition their hands and make them tougher like karate guys.

 

Very plausible I would say.

 

So why didn't he rule out fighting the other big men of the era like McVea Ferguson?

Why was Jeffries the only man where size was an issue?

 

Thats actually a good point. Langford was never scared of size alone so this suggests he saw something in Jeff that spooked him.

I don't put too much stalk in it tho, because he was fairly tiny regardless of how skilled he was.

 

Jeffries certainly had in him far more than just size. He wasn't a giant for his era, there were fighters bigger than him then. Yet people marveled at his athleticism, quickness, strength and boxing skills.

I don't want to sell the idea that he was some kind of boxing genius, but he was certainly physically gifted and it seems that he possessed far more than just a brute force. Nobody called Jess WIllard a GOAT or anything and Jess possessed much bigger physical advantages over his opponents.

Some people view Jeffries as some kind of older version of Max Baer (without Baer's punch), but I don't think it's a fair assumption based on what we know about him.

 

What exactly do we know about him ?

It took him eleven rounds to win the title from a small, old , inactive light heavyweight in Fitz.

He went twenty five rounds with 185 pound Tom Sharkey. We have grainy footage where he didn't look particularly fast compared to his opponent and got hit often.

He went twenty two rounds with an old Corbett. He got hit a lot and often looked clumsy .. this was again against an inactive guy with a 72' reach.

He looked ok from what we can see beating up Ruhlin.

We have a work out clip where he jumps rope and his admirers part the Red Sea because there is a moment he ducks a punch.

He then looks utterly useless despite a year of training and public exhibitions against Johnson from the opening second..

I am not knocking him. I'm being totally serious .. We know he was strong but compared to Fitz and Corbett ? We know he was a tough guy from a tough era for sure. He defended his title , came into the ring in shape, emerged victorious. He also drew the color line and possibly made the mistake of his life by not fighting Johnson in 1906 opposed to 1910 .. I don't bye all the hype other than hard fact ..I believe he was a man of his era who had the best combination of size, strength , conditioning , chin and skills to beat the men he did the way he beat them . None of any of that shows me in any way he did anything Chuvalo, Bonavena , a Bert Cooper couldn't have done .. maybe he was better but we've seen not one thing to prove it.

 

You keep asking questions ,but when you get the answers you ignore them.
Firstly Ferguson wasnt very good.
Secondly Langford did not fight him until1908 when he had gained a lot more experience of fighting heavies and he himself was now appreciably heavier than the 20 years old light middleweight who had vetoed a contest with Jeffries, a contest I might add that nobody had ever proposed ,but was just a publicity calling card his managerJoe Williams had cooked up and had printed.
Thirdly Langford had his first fight with McVey in 1911, 6 years after he had said he would not fight Jeffries, during which time, at 26 years old he had matured into a solid muscular lhvy!
Now do you want to push this any further?

 

See my reply to Janitor.

 

He was good enough to be seen as a potential challenger for Jeffries title, and he was bigger than Jeffries.

You are missing some key points.

Langford never publicly rued out fighting Ferguson, or any other big man of the day, but he did rule out fighting Jeffries.

Any man in the world except Jeffries, means precisely that.

He willingly took a fight with the man who had beaten all the big men of the era (Johnson), and by far the most qualified title challenger of the day, around the time that the card was printed.

Whether Langford himself was very good at the time, or a qualified title challenger, is not particularly relevant.

The point is, that whatever worried him about Jeffries, it obviously wasn't just his size.

 

I'm missing absolutely nothing!
It is you totally ignoring the facts that I place before you!
1. His manager had the card printed.
2,It was in1906 when Langford was just a 20 years old light middleweight who had fought just one or two heavies like Jeannette in Dec 1905 and he was around 30lbs lighter than Jeffries and not yet that established.
3.Ferguson was not mentioned as a prospective opponent for Jeffries in1906, he wasnt very goodat any stage in his career anyway.
4.Langford did not fight him until1908 2 years later when he himself was older and physically bigger and stronger!
5.Langford did not fight McVey until 1911, 6 years later by which time he was a 26 years old husky light heavy/come heavyweight!

Now read these facts and mentally absorb them, because you are making me tired with this repetitious nonsense!

 

Re Langford and the preclusion of Jeffries.

Isn’t it obvious that Sam’s (and/or his manager’s) sentiments re Jeffries were superfluous? Jeffries drew the line. My reading on Sam is he takes on ANYBODY.

That leaves an altogether different motive aside from Sam literally not wanting to fight Jeffries.

My guess is that preclusion of Jeffries, as the White HW Champ, might’ve simply been pushed through as a respectful acknowledgement of Jeffries. As such, it might’ve put Sam in better stead of securing all other fights otherwise.

Making such an exemption was like being the antithesis of Johnson who, while he fought whoever was available, made it clear that he singularly and ultimately wanted Big Jim. Sam would’ve also seen the futility of Johnson’s and the black fighter’s plight in general. despite outstanding eligibility otherwise.

Fair to say the public were more enamoured of Sam than they were of Jack. A method to the madness.

In return for precluding Big Jeff, Sam might’ve garnered more matches and perhaps fairer treatment, v black and white.

Sam’s each and every success then not being viewed as a step closer to Jeffries without the threat of Sam demanding a match with Jim based on an increasingly solid and eligible resume.