David Tua vs. Joe Frazier

if you had any credibility, this would be quite funny...as it stands, it just confirms your lack of knowledge!!!

 

I don't get it...Any time some one picks Tua against an ATG they are laughed at! but against Smokin Joe he is seen as a credible opponent??? My how under rated Joe has become! I don't see the comparison to Foreman. Tua had good power and an equally good chin. But he does not have the speed, defense, mobility, presence or ability to withstand what Joe will bring. Joe in a 1 sided decision, easily wins this. I don't believe a KO would be forth coming, but I don't believe joe is in any danger here!

 

Tua is very good, but then Joe has only lost to the very cream of the crop..unless you are in that stratosphere, Joe is probably not going to be an out. But when suggested as a possiblity to beat Tyson (huggers don't get upset!), Ali, Louis, Holmes etc. they are criticized and laughed at? Why has Joe dimished in the eyes of so many that this is OK. (By the way not criticizing you or your thread...merely challenging some answers?).

I would give Tua a punchers chance against quite a few of these, but outside of that likelyhood, could not call him a favorite or prime upset candidate. Sure it is possible but not likely...IMO

 

I like Frazier here. Tua has an edge in physical strength and a slightly better chin but Frazier is clearly the better all-around fighter. Frazier's lefthook is a lot less sloppy and more precise than Tua's is. I don't see Frazier knocking out Tua though.

Frazier UD

 

It's funny that Frazier has only lost to two fighters in his career (Foreman, Ali), yet he is so underrated. He always came to fight and never had any disputed decisions like some of the more popular titlelists, yet he is not given his due. I find that very sad.

 

People do hate on Joe more than others from the 70's for some reason.

 

It's funny, they give Joe a hard time because of his feelings toward Ali, but they don't know how Joe felt back then. Ali had most of black America on his side, calling Joe and Uncle Tom and a gorilla. Thats after Joe tried to help Ali's ass. Some of that was in jest, but that kind of stuff is hurtful, and when you have your own community ridiculing you, it's hard to forget. Ali did a lot of psychological damage to a lot of fighters, but people are unforgiving towards him and not Joe.

 

Joe is still loved in philly.

 

I think you meant, "forgiving towards Ali." Just want to make sure I get what you're saying.

People underrate the hell out of Joe's in-ring accomplishments too. The only HW of the 70's who gets more flack than Joe that I see is Leon Spinks and at least there's an valid argument for that.

 

Joe Frazier beat:
Ali
Foster
Quarry x2
Ellis x2
Bugner
Machen
Bonavena x2
Chuvalo
Mathis

This is damn solid list of wins and people try to act like he isnt a top 10 heavyweight. Based on accomplishments, this is easily a better resume than sonny liston and dempsey.

 

Yeah, I meant forgiving. You are correct, though. They de-value his accomplishments because he was blown out by Foreman, when styles clearly dictated that fight, just like the styles had already dictated the outcome of the Duran-Hearns fight. Joe would have been great in any era, though.

 

I agree.

I don't think he would have faired well against Tyson, but he could've been a champ in the 80's. I'd like to see another small-ish heavy be successful in the scene.

 

None, but some of them were better than Tua, much like Frazier himself was better than Tua.

I wasn't aware that twice amounted to "numerous times."

Frazier wasn't really a three-round fighter, and Mathis had a somewhat troublesome style for him. At least Joe didn't blown out in 19 seconds.

I can't speak for him, but I suspect his point was that Frazier was a better fighter than Tua and he thinks Frazier would beat Tua.

 

I don't think someone picking Tua over Joe is hating on Joe. Joe gets plenty of respect, and rightly so. He was a fighter's fighter.

Tua is one of those 'fly in the ointment' types. A fighter who, although certainly no great himself, could upset one or two greats, given the right circumstances.

He had awesome power (especially in the left hand) and a chin that was almost impervious. Only Savon ever cracked it.

Frazier's style suits Tua nicely. Tua struggled when you gave him angles, boxed him and didn't allow him to get too close. Frazier would do none of that.
He would come straight at Tua, and Tua would meet him in the center of the ring. Frazier had a good chin, but was it a great chin? It's said by some that Frazier was, to be diplomatic, dissuaded from facing big punchers. Is it true? I don't know, but Joe didn't face too many really big hitters in his time.
Tua, for all his shortcomings as a fighter, could really bang. It's not a stretch to assume his power was in Foreman's class.

To top it off, I think Tua's chin would cope well enough with Joe's hook. It was a beautiful punch, but Joe would need to land a ton of them to wear Tua down.
So, you've got two guys of roughly similar build and with a come-forward-only fighting style, only one of them enjoys a power and durability advantage.
It's like two pit bulls going at it, only one of them is a little bigger and bites harder than the other.
It's only logical to assume the stronger and tougher fighter prevails.

However, as I see it, not all is lost for Joe. He enjoys a marked stamina advantage, and no man has ever been more tenacious in the ring. Nobody ever concentrated on Tua's body for a sustained period, and Joe loved pounding the body.
If Joe can't dent his chin, he sure as hell can soften up that ample belly. Kill the body and the head dies, as they say.

To me, the fight hinges on whether Joe can withstand Tua's monster hooks, or evade enough of them so that he's not in serious trouble. If he can do that, he can - and will - win the fight.