David Tua vs Joe Frazier

Again you are missing the point I'm not evaluating the quality of Peralta's many opponents.
I'm contrasting his massive experience with George's greeness.

Look if you are a top ten ranked opponent you are a note worthy opponent.Since time immemorial a win of such an opponent has qualifed a boxer for a title shot,to deny this is ridiculous .
"Bonavena was another mediocre boxer", this is your personal opinion not based on results.

When Peralta drew with Bonavena in 1969, Bonavena was rated no7 in the world.In:
66 -no7
67-no6
68-no3
69-no7
70-no3
71-no3
72-no 0
73--no7
74-n0 4

In a nine year period he was only once out of the top ten.
Yet he is mediocre?
That would be why he went 10rds to a split decision with Frazier ,flooring him twice.
Why he went 15rds with him to a decision for the NYSAC World Title without being in trouble at any time.
Why he beat Karl Mildenberger, flooring him 4 times, in a WBA eliminator for the WBA title.
Why he beat Zora Folley who had challenged Ali for the title the year previously,a Folley who was ranked no 2, 2 years previously in 1966.

Why he beat George Chuvalo in 1966 when Chuvalo was no8 ,and had been no 3 the previous year.
Why he beat Leotis Martin over 10rds .
Why, after beating MIldenberger he was selected to fight Jimmy Ellis in a 2nd rd WBA title Eliminator.
Why he went into the 15th rd with Muhammad Ali giving him a very interesting evening.
I'm sorry ,your usually objective opinion has flown out of the window.

I can only conclude you have a personal bias against Foreman that has totally destroyed your neutrality here.

Can't you just say," oh yeah Peralta I forgot about him"?
Not being able to do so diminishes you , and you're better than that.

 

There have always been plenty of ranked fighters who had got into top 10 only because the era was lacking many quality fighters.

I don't have a personal bias against Foreman, I have my point of view about heavyweights in general, and I'm pretty consistent with it as you know. Bonavena was mediocre to me. An ordinary tough fighter, with little skills, cleverness or achievements. Peralta at heavyweight is even lower for me, due to lack of achievements, even though he had better skills than both Bonavena and Foreman.

 

Frazier was too easy to hit to survive against Tua's bombs. Stylistically it's not a good fight for Frazier. The only way he takes this is if he can force Tua back and outwork him. Forcing Tua back would reduce Tua's power but Frazier in my opinion would be in firing range far too much.

Not many HWs have a top 10 KO list of top contenders, but Tua's best KO's are at least on par with Frazier's for example and definitely more brutal. Moorer, Ruiz, Maskeev, Rahman (premature perhaps), Oquendo are on par or maybe better than Quarry, Ellis, Machen, Chuvalo, Matthis, Foster, Chuvalo. Izon, Wilson and Sullivan were decent prospects or fringe contenders too.

Also look at the nature of the KOs, Sullivan goes 9 with Vitali and quits, then gets knocked cold by Tua in 30 seconds.

 

I was comparing Tua to guys like Tyson, Louis and Foreman, genuine punchers who did the business when they stepped up.

I feel Tua is severely overrated.

 

According to Tuards he beats just about anybody h2h despite losing every big fight of his career, and never winning a world title.

 

i think these h2h are ridiculous because who the hell put money on douglas to beat tyson,who wins? who really knows. but do make for good reading. tua is bigger than povetkin and ibragimov and they would beat him up

 

Sounds like you're one... People who overrate Tua, and favor him to beat greats in fantasy match-ups, despite the fact that he never came close to winning a world title and lost nearly every important fight of his career.

In Tuard land, Tua would beat nearly anybody h2h...

 

Asky any Tua fan to post 10 quality fighters he Kod and they all disappear.

 

Foreman often didn't do the business when he stepped up and try making a top 10 KOs list for him, once you get past Frazier, Norton, Lyle and Moorer you'll struggle

Tua isn't overrated, his power is brutal while his boxing skills and workrate are limited. So in match up against pressure types like Frazier he does very well while against boxers like say Ali or Holmes or even Tony Tubbs he loses every round.

 

Tua bombs Frazier out early. In this one down goes Frazier only once.

 

Frazier wouldn't have had to knock Tua out he would have outworked him to earn a decision. Frazier after all was an Olympic champion before turning pro and had good boxing skills and not just the left hook. The prime version of Frazier was a non stop punching machine that was able to cut the distance and land on his opponent with frequency and accuracy. I'm not saying that Tua didn't have ability just not on the level of Frazier and nowhere is this more obvious that against Lennox Lewis where he was handled with relative ease and outboxed. Frazier was susceptible in the early rounds to the big punch so obviously you cant rule that out but unless Tua could pin him down then a prime Frazier would get the better of him over the stretch.
The reality is that Frazier was the undisputed champion a title that he earned whilst Tua only won minor titles against mainly second tier opposition or fighters that were past their prime. If he was this ultimate destroyer that keeps being portrayed on this forum then he would have achieved far more than he did in the real world because he was given the opportunity on a number of occasions and failed.

 

He got only 1 opportunity: Lewis.
Ibeabuchi did not beat him.
Neither did Byrd.

 

Unfortunately Frankenfrank the record books don't agree with you on that score. Bottom line is he lost and didn't work hard enough to knock on the door of the champion.
Also for those who think that Tua was invincible check out his knockout at the hands of Felix Savon in the amateurs.

 

Just been watching replays of Tua in his prime and nothing there has convinced me that he had the tools to beat a prime Frazier. He just didn't have the workrate or skills to deal with the top tier heavyweights and would only have had a punchers chance against Frazier.

 

"Don't agree with" me? How many title shots did he get? Against Savon he was up in time but the referee still stopped it. And besides he was 19 years old against a fully developed, far taller and far more experienced amateur.