David Tua vs Rocky Marciano

13 pages...damn! well i haven't read them all but it's an interesting thread at the least.

basically i see marciano outworking and outslugging tua for a tough, grinding decision

the rock has a better workrate, stamina, and punches on par with a tua that outweighs him by 30 pounds

not easy, not always pretty but he just pulls ahead most rounds and takes the UD

 

1. David Tua was always past his prime. The only time he wasn't is when he fought Ruiz or Ike (His ultimate measuring stick for his prime... a fight he lost). Do you think better or more primed when he was 12 lbs heavier against Lewis?

2. Re-read what I wrote. I never made any connection to styles or attributes. Light-punching Chris Byrd's body punches visibly bothered Tua. Unless you think Tua knocks him out in the 1st round I imagine his body is going to get banged on a lot. Unless you're trying to imply that Marciano doesn't fight well on the inside or isn't a good body-puncher. I KNOW HE ISN'T BYRD and won't fight like Byrd!

3. Perhaps, but I don't think so. Rocky generally likes to get low, and inside with good leverage when he goes to the body. He's not reckless to the body, and doesn't try to counter to the body too often.

I'm more worried about Rocky's glove placement. I was recently watching Rocky's Ringside special and Atlas was praising Marciano for things that most people think are accidents, and crediting his defense to slip and roll with shots. However, he tends to like to place his right glove toward the center to block jabs/right and straight shots, which made him vulnerable to Walcott's left hooks early. I noticed he tried tightening his guard up better as the fight wore on. It's definitely a weakness of his, though. He seems to tighten that problem up when he's in a closer range, but Walcott is so tricky that he can shoot a long left hook after a feint or misdirection and catch you off guard. Tua's not going to counter over his right as I feel he'd be too worried about Rocky's power and punches, but he could slip in a short quick hook that Rocky's unprepared for. Overall, I think Rocky won't mess around with Tua though and Goldman would help him make the adjustment to tighten his guard against a close-range left hooker like Tua.

 

Marciano at his fighting weight could not handle David Tua and his left hook. Too small. Different divisions now.

 

That's what it comes down to for me. Rocky would plant himself right in front of Tua. Not a good matchup for The Rock.

 

I don't like the trend of calling guys winners in match up with a wave of the hand and "they were great, other guy wasn't. The end."

This game is about styles and men. If it wasn't, a lot of great fighters would have never lost to some of the guys they did.

 

Tua by KO.

It's like APC going against a battle tank.

Rocky has no chance.

 

This matchup isn't so much about rocky being great as it is about tua being a fat shite.

I don't anyone refutes that out of ten fights tua has a chance to land a lucky shot, but in general you would expect rocky to win. He is just all round better in every facet other than gut size.

 

Well the thing was Tua was gasping for air way before any bodyshots, I don't recall Tua being badly hurt by bodyshots at all I thought it was more a case of him not being conditioned, chasing Byrd around and tiring. A prime Tua, the Tua that set punchstat records against Ibeaubuchi would not be gassing like this. Whats more because Rocky would fight him toe-toe he would not have to chase Rocky around the ring. A very different match up

The thought of crouching against a smaller man just isn't a particularly good idea as the taller Marciano would actually be coming down to Tua's punch range, making it easier for Tua to land. Marciano's advantage at close quarters of having the short arms would not be an advantage here as Tua was probably an even shorter puncher. Marciano may be in the perculiar situation of fighting on the back foot, looking to roll and scord right counters

 

This is a nonsence. Boxing is about levels. Yes tua was a good fighter but he just did not reach the elite level. There is a reason he did not reach it and it was not beacuse he was heavier than 1950s heavyweights its because he wasnt good enough.

I dont care how hard tua hit or how fat he was ANY fighter from the next level REGARDLES OF STYLE would exploit his short comings just like they did in real life.

Marciano was not simply an elite heavyweight (tua never was) rocky was also a solid ATG, on a much higher level.

 

very much agreed, it's a little silly to treat boxing like an episode of dragonball where the results are determined soley based on power levels or status and that the fight itself is a formality.

lesser fighters beat greater fighters based on styles, circumstances and a variety of other factors. it's happened before, and it'll happen again.

but these h2hs, imo, are weighing the balance of possibilities. if they fought 10 times, who wins more of them?

In this case, marciano wins more often than he loses. tua COULD beat him but i wouldn't say it happens more often than the opposite.

 

So beating 2 lineal HW Champs, 1 WBC Champ, 1 WBA champ, making a total of 4 champs and numerous top contenders, yet he isn't an elite HW?

Rocky isn't reaching an ATG status in the 90-00s against Lennox Lewis either

 

You are wrong. Boxing is about styles .. A beats B, B beats C does not mean A beats C ... the question is not if Marciano was a better fighter or a better pound for pound fighter but who wins straight up .. considering Marciano was a face first, aggressive, balls to the wall fighter who never took a back step in his career , who won by chasing down and grinding down his opponents , how in the hell is he going to meet Tua in ring certer and beat him when Tua was much bigger, stronger, faster, harder hitting and had a far better proven chin to boot ? It's a fantasy. What are you going on, his knocking out Lee Savold or Rex Layne or ancient Joe Louis ? The Louis that fought Marciano would have likely been KO'ed in one round by Tua ...

It's all aboit the match up ..

 

I agree. Tua was shot by the time he got to Chris Bryd. His weight had ballooned, he was slower, and he was a one trick pony at this time--only hoping to land big left hooks.

After the 4th round, the announcers showed how Tua failed to cut off the ring against Bryd. There were so many times when he just let Bryd spin himself out of trouble when Tua had him cornered. He allowed Lennox Lewis to escape, too. There were times when David had Lewis cornered, and threw nothing, so Lewis wiggled out of harm's way. Prime Tua didn't make these mistakes.

Rocky Marciano had a harder punch than Bryd, so his body punches would do more damage. He wouldn't hit and run the way Bryd did, though. Rocky would be standing right there to get countered.

And, as Powerpuncher mentioned, Tua's conditioning affected him greatly. He was gaining weight, which affected his stamina and speed. He was out of breath much quicker than he should have been.

 

I think you are over simplifying things.

If all marciano had was that he was a face first balls to the wall fighter who ground down his opponents you would be right. but he was more than that. had to be to do what he did.

If I had of been around even I could not pick marciano against any of the great fighters #1 contenders that he beat because going into those fights I would have agreed with your assesment but because he kept winning, kept doing it at an elite level (that tua never did) I accept he must have been special.

I never warmed to lennox lewis either until it was all over but now I accept that he was a top ten all time great because the record stands up. LEWIS also had a special edge that you have to accept.

Marciano had a lot more about him, he just kept finding a way to win and he retired before a decline set in which means it is hard to asses his real weakness. It kind of proves that he was like all the real great ones who were nigh on unbeatable (in spite of the odds) at their best. He earned that by cleaning out a division.

we can be clever after the evant and try to spot what it was that he had but I dont think it was that evident at the time. He just had it. Marciano was always going to be (for a time) up there with the best.

For that reason alone rocky kicks ass agaisnt anyone but peak ATG fighters. It is a special level That he earned.

 

I disagree. Well you may have a point conditioning wise, I saw Tua visibly bothered and even backing up at times from body shots. I just went to watch some clips and the Showtime announcers go "Tua coming off a training camp that was like a boot camp he told us."

How tall is Tua? Tua does fight a bit more upright though.

Marciano can fight in the pocket, side-stepping, and swarming while rolling. he did it effectively against Layne. The thing is, there's no way Tua is the better shorter puncher. And Marciano's punch variation is much much better.