David Tua vs Rocky Marciano

Tua throws way, way less punches than Marciano. He hardly threw a punch against Lewis who is huge, but who Tua, after realising the job of work was too hard, didn't try to fight, because that's the kind of guy he is. Now, it could go the other way - Tua could just hit Rocky and Rocky could fall over. That's definitely not impossible. But Marciano is a little bit taller than Tua. They won't look silly together. The question is, does Tua have SO much power, that Marciano's granite chin get broke on the rare occasions - as I see it - that Tua hits him properly? And I just don't see that. Marciano could be flashed because of balance issues but the evidence is that he was every bit as difficult to really hurt as Tua. Your basically banking upon Tua hitting SO much harder than everyone who ever hit him that Marciano becomes unrecognisable when he gets hit. That's fine - there's nothing wrong with that pick. But it's a hell of a thing to be :good:roll: about. That's a huge presumption to base that kind of pick on.

My problem with the above is "Rahman too." Rahman was plodding, one-dimensional, and pretty easy to hit. He's a puncher - that's it. But Tua struggled to dominate him - in fact, all we really learned was that Rahman could drop him. So Marciano could too. IMO, Rahman-Tua completely negates your "styles make fights" sum void, and the limitations that you list for Marciano were generally way, way more pronounced in Rahman than Rocky.

Even against plodding sluggers (and Marciano was way more than that), Tua could be found very wanting due to his limitations. Again, although my bet the house crack was spurious, you seem to be serious about your "open and shut" pick. That, for me, is impossible to take seriously.

It's a cruiserweight who perfected - perfected - a certain style against a heavyweight who was a failure. I, too, make that an easy pick, but I do allow that Tua hit hard enough to make things weird.

 

Well it's the only time Tua met a fighter in Rocky's class (p4p). And he vanished - he didn't really fight. That's relevant when we match him with ATGs.

I think that Tua isn't a coward but I don't think he's a natural. I think if he doesn't just bowl Marciano out of there he'll turn in a similar performance here. Marciano was easy to hit but hard to hit clean. Now, if he's in with a great opponent with superb accuracy, excellent technique, the ability to feint Maricano out of position he can be found and it would look easy. But in fact, he takes significant unlocking. Moore and Walcott, two of the best lockpickers in history, were the only guys who really really found him and even they didn't find him much.

I think Tua wouldn't hit Marciano all that much, properly.

And Tua was a 5'10 fighter with a 70" reach. His only physical advantage here is poundage. That's it. You've made an awful lot of styles. We're not going to find a fighter who met Tua who was ATG and 186lbs so we work with what we have; Rahman is the closest in style to what you are pinning on Marciano and Tua was awful against him. Rahman's height and reach were hardly enormously important in this fight either.

That's just it; Tua was often mediocre against great opposition. The exceptions are Ruiz (where he won before being tested) and Ike, where he lost. Again, I can see why the poundage difference - there is no size difference - would give people pause, but I don't get the "it's obvious Tua will win" attitude. I think it makes no sense.

I think that when Marciano was sorely tested, he won. I think the smaller fighters that tested him - Moore, Walcott, Charles - were all-time p4p greats (and Walcott haha) with exactly the kind of lockpicking skills that Tua never ever exhibited.

I think that if we're looking at Rocky's worst performances and comparing them to Tua's worst performances, Tua comes off way, way worse. If your'e looking at their best performances, Tua comes off worse.

Either way it's not an easy pick for Tua. Tua versus any ATG of any style is questionable because Tua was, in the end, a failure. And given his physical abilities, a shocking failure.

And these guys are eye-to-eye. The notion that all you need to beat Marciano is to be a very hard puncher is preposterous, frankly. Marciano-Lewis, Marciano-Liston, yeah, I can get on board - if not quite agree - with someone saying that those are easy picks, but no also-ran is an easy pick over Rocky.

 

How do people see Holyfield from the Qawi fight versus Tua going?

 

Tbh, this is now reaching voodoo type levels for me.

Yes, Marciano knocking out all-time great Charles whilst on the brink is better than Tua being depressingly out-boxed by Byrd.

Yes, not bothering to fight against Lewis was worse than beating LaStarza close.