David Tua vs Rocky Marciano

I can't work you out BH you have excellent boxing knowledge when you are serious.
The world's not perfect there is good and bad in every race.

 

I do like how this splits the board, apart from the racist moron there's been soon good debate over the years on this.

We have a proven great against a failed contender.

Two small short armed sluggers with bone crunching power.

I would give Rocky a full training camp here with knowledge of who he's gonna fight, maybe a tune up fight because he's moving up a division. Obviously I'd do the same with Tua. I'd be quite positive the weight deficit would significantly reduce.

What I'm suggesting is we take size out of the equation and instead debate style.

Rocky usually crouches and explodes, he isn't going to be successful against a fellow short slugger. This is going to be a case of meeting fire with fire. No one will have to cut the ring off here. I envision Rocky outlasting Tua but I'm not as resolute in my belief as i was a few years ago posting here.

One thing I've learnt more than anything else is greatness doesn't win fights.

That Tua lost clearly to Byrd and Lewis but arguably beat everyone else he fought. He beat Ruiz, Moorer and went the distance with Ike. That's the basis of Tua winning here isn't it, fast starter with brutal power who had impressive stamina. Does losing to Byrd and Lewis mean he loses to Rocky? Of course not.

With Rocky we base it on Charles, Walcott and Louis. It's an extremely safe bet that he would have beaten Byrd as well. But would he have lasted the distance with Ike? Hard to say.

I'm confident that Tua does not succeed in Rocky's era. He beats Louis and probably beats a declining Charles but Walcott should defeat him routinely. I'm fairly confident Rocky wouldn't fight in Tua's era, he'd be more likely to compete as a CW for the first part of his career especially with it being 190 pounds. I think Rocky moves up and beats Byrd but loses to Lewis.

How do I see Rocky coming out on top? His commitment to softening up an opponent with body shots. I don't believe Tua will survive brutal body shots for the duration of a fight and I do think he's gonna start taking a backwards step once they've been sunk in a few times. When Tua goes back Rocky will come forward with big hooks. This probably will not be a count out affair, it would be a close points win or a late TKO by my money.

 

We all know it happened. When it happened is a story all on its own.

 

The when is the key point of your argument though.

Without the when you have no argument.

What we do know for certain is rounds dropped from 15 to 12 which is a 20% reduction.

We also know there's a 24 hour weigh in now which means people are able to drain down to a lower weight class than they would previously have fought at.

Those are two facts. We know exactly when they came into place and we can see how the weights changed at that time.

 

Other clues has to be when fighters began to succeed over and above what had previously been considered a natural or healthy weight for their height. Bodybuilder physiques and the like. A type of SHW that could never have existed before. Older fighters going on for years and years longer than ever before whilst remaining relevant at the top of the division.

So when did it all happen? All these key points.. they all happened

 

Bob Fitzsimmons went from a natural 140 pound fighter to a 170 pound fighter years after his best so I'm guessing it was round about then.

 

Don't forget Mickey Walker, you forgot him and others that have absolutely no relevance to what we are talking about.

We both know we are not talking of isolated incidents from the bowels of time. We are talking of irreversible changes. Waves of change. We both know it.

 

I watch the way Tua fought inside against Ike, Byrd, and Rahman, and he would walk into a guy's chest, push with his shoulder, and sometimes go a whole minute or more without throwing a meaningful punch. It was the left hook or nothing for him and that's not a myth. I think this would look like the Layne/Maricano fight, lots of pushing, Maricano more active in the phone booth, Tua struggling to get off. Tua is about 225 at his best, I think Rocky comes in at 190 or 193 for a pushing match, he gets knocked back early but I think gradually holds his own.

 

Yes Walker that's another one as well. Men increasing huge amounts of weight and staying relevant way past their best.

Must be PEDS as you say.

 

These isolated incidents like Fitz, Walker and co, this is all before it was so widespread. By and large careers were shorter in years. Forty year old fighters were a novelty joke. A fighter recorded his best wins within a smaller margin of weight than now.

But Fitz, walker and co was long before these abnormalities went mainstream and became commonplace. There is no comparison.

 

This went mainstream?

How many men have been legitimate champions in 3 weight classes as Fitz was?

 

Luf, you are being trolled mate, he is a total ****ing idiot.

 

His mindset is do blinkered.

"Without PEDs Lewis would be no better than Carmine Vingo who Rocky wasted"

That sums him up these days.

 

That's not what I said at all. I have said numerous times Lennox would have been a champion in any era. He has the proven pedigree of a great fighter.

So many write off a fighter because of size, well if it is artificial size achieved in modern times, in the name of FairPlay, isn't it as legitimate to write off the artificially enhanced?

 

It's funny that once you hit a dead end the insults come out. I am only putting forward ideas. If you can't come back with anything logical or explain a theory in a boxing sense why just hover around without contributing?