David Tua vs Rocky Marciano

Where are they now? Where have they ever been?

Aside from one family where are the other dominant 6'6 fighters?

 

Men have gained weight since day 1.
Not always successfully.

A 24 hour window has meant men can pseudo gain by cutting less which makes such moves now seem more successful.

 

The politics of the division might not allow one man to dominate the division for some time but right now, as of now, the champions, regardless of nationality, are 6'6" behemoths. You could say the division is now dominated by a community of 6'6" behemoths because there are so many of them. Only two of the top 15 are less than 6'4".

Where were they last century?

 

Luf, ask him what he hopes to achieve by all this repetition

Ok, what are YOU hoping to achieve by all this?
None of the top athletes, in whatever sport are going to change their programme, even if that involves steroid abuse which remains undetected.
The steroid era is here and it's here to stay and no amount of whinging on a forum will alter that fact.
Time to move and accept you aren't going to change the world.

 

There have been loads of ranked contenders above 6'2 throughout history.

The only men with a height of 6'6 who have ever dominated in history are the Klitschko brothers. You are asking for something that is a complete anomaly so far.

No one is dominating right now, in fact the highest ranked HW today is 6'2 Alexander Povetkin.

Where are all the men throughout history who have been top ranked whilst weighing 6'2 or less? Oh wait, pretty much everyone.

 

All I am hoping to achieve is an open discussion about how much stock should be put into artificial weight and methods to achieve greater physical potential when it was not always available.

Is it so wrong to say this guy was great in a time when it was so much harder to achieve so much physical performance and this next guy was from that time where it was possible to reach greater physical potential ..and he still wasn't very good?

Can't somebody speak out and say you know what, this guy did not make the grade with all that stuff?

And to be absolutely honest as you say all of it is here to stay. I have the greatest respect and sympathy for Fighters today. They are still great. Great fights make greater fighters and we still get thrilling fights every year. Therefore today's men are great too.

And If they both juice it's a fair fight. But to make comparisons with earlier times we must acknowledge what was achieved without what fighters today have access to today.

 

We have never had a time where 6'2" was the vast minority. Like it is now.

Nobody is dominating right now, this is true.

You asked where are all the 6'2" men today like the ones from history who dominated the division at 6'2" or less? - The cruiserweight division.

 

Today the highest ranked HW is also 6'2.

Before the Willard experiment there was never a 6'2 champion, how do you explain that one?

Quite interesting how before the 1900's there was never a champion above 6'2 and before the 1990's there was never a champion above 6'4

Wait a minute, didn't you say the average height has increased by 2 inches? That would mean this increase I height makes absolutely perfect sense.

You've solved it, evolution is the answer!

 

Povetkin is a banned fighter. The top four are Joshua, Pulev, Wilder and Ortiz.

John C Heenan was 6'2", Jim Jeffries was 6'2" and Jack Johnson was similar.

apart from Willard and Carnera.

well yes I read the increase in height was 2" per century.

not quite. 6'6" guys were always around it just took 100 years for them to make a contribution at world level.

 

When was Povetkin banned?

Similar is no good. You've insisted on this height as key to your argument.

There has been exactly one 6'9 champion in Tyson Fury.

There have been exactly two legitimate 6'6 world champions in history Jess Willard and Wladimir Klitschko

There have been 3 6'5 world champions in history Primo Carnera, Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe.

Guess what the lower in height we go, the more numerous champions of that height there are.

Ernie Terrell was a title holder and he was 6'6. Buddy Baer was 6'6. Fred Fulton was 6'5. There have been loads of men at this level throughout history.

Today we have the tallest HW fighters because today we have the tallest men.

The top 10 in the division

Alexander Povetkin : 6'2
Anthony Joshua : 6'6
Luis Ortiz : 6'4
Deontay Wilder : 6'7
Joseph Parker : 6'4
Kubrat Pulev : 6'4
Carlos Takam : 6'1
Andy Ruiz : 6'2
Christian Hamer : 6'2
Dyllian Whiyte : 6'4

An average height of 6'3.6

The top ten as far back as I can go (1924)

Jack Dempsey : 6'1
Harry Wills : 6'2
Tommy Gibbons : 6'0
Charley Weinert : 5'11
Quintin Rojas : 6'1
Jack Renault : 6'1
Luis Firpo : 6'3
George Godfrey : 6'3
Jim Maloney : 5'10
Erminio Spalla : 6'1

Average height of 6'0.5

So a difference of 3 inches over almost 100 years. Pretty much in line with everything evolution says.

Now stop this.

 

Most heights of athletes today are reported as more than they really are. Including boxers.

Not really sure what the argument is about but if we are talking about the increase in height then this should be noted.

 

povetkin has tested positive because he needs to compete with giants. How can he count as a legitimate contender if he is a drugs cheat?

you said there was no 6'2" champions before Willard but there was. I named at least two legit 6'2" champs and one similar in that span and you pick up on the similar one...

correct. One early in the last century one at the end so their existence ranges right across the last century doesn't it? Why were there only two? If bigger is best?

which is my point. They were always around.

well yes over all we are two inches taller. But like you say we always had tall fighters..as tall as they are now. But it took one hundred years to reach a point where we have two guys under 6'4" and one of them was a drugs cheat...

yes and of them Otiz, Povetkin have failed drugs tests. If Stivern,Tyson Fury and Hewey Fury were in those ratings that would be another three cheaters in the ratings over 6'4". 6'5" Charles Martin doesn't feature here, he is #6 with boxrec they don't rate Takkem he's well out of the recent ratings. Although they have installed David Haye in their top ten who is 6'1" of anyone's money but lists himself 6'3".

 

Yes it's took 100 years for the HW average height to increase 3 inches, that's what evolution is.

You seem hypocritical trying to not count Povetkin but include other men you say have cheated. But of a strange one that.

The point has been made clear. You helped make it actually. 100 years ago 6'2 men could be effective despite being over the average height of the division.

Now 6'5 men can be effective despite being above the average height of the division.

Some use PEDS, some don't. Bigger indications are fights being shorter, rehydration being longer and evolution making man bigger.

The reason Rocky would not be a successful HW today is because by today's weight he would not be a HW. Louis would be, just about and he might need to add more weight to be competitive today, because man has got bigger so he would have to adapt to that.

 

Some get caught, some don't.

 

tua by one sided massacre