David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Foreman wasn't Holyfield's toughest fight by a long shot. I'd say that the bigger Bowe and Lewis were the toughest by far. In his youth, Foreman would be just as big a challenge but not when Holyfield fought him. I'm not saying that Foreman wasn't still an all time great puncher, but he didn't have the speed and athleticism to put his power on target the way that he used to.

As for the Klitschko's being afraid and ducking a 40-50 year old Holyfield you are silly. They didn't want to fight Evander because his skills were so diminished by that point that it wouldn't have been competitive.

Which I believe. But the reason a bullet pierces armor is because of it's point. All of the force is focused, whereas in a fist the bludgeoning force is diffused over a larger area. If you get shot but are wearing armor you will be bruised. You may have the wind knocked out of you or have a cracked rib. It's not the force as much as the focus. I'm sure a lot of boxers can punch that hard. I'd just like to see some averages and some science to prove it. And so we can properly compare Marciano's power to other guys his size and guys who are bigger.

I agree that accuracy and timing are as important factors in knocking someone out as strength. That's not what is in dispute here. What is disputed is Marciano's power. If you would like to make a case that Marciano was a supremely accurate puncher then go ahead and make that case, but that is not what we are talking about, and I'm not sure how you would measure it as effectively.

 

Actually this is a misunderstanding of the what was written. Marciano's punch has as much energy as an armor which is not difficult because of the vast size difference. The delivery system is totally different and thus the effects are completely incomparable.

 

We're talking punching power and Holyfield took tons of shots vs Bowe and Lewis but would not do the same against Foreman. Case closed.

Yet they take on Shannon Briggs? Mormek? Holyfield looked very good vs Valuev,his size was taken away from him in that fight, and which thats all the Klitschko have.

Bulleting PIERCING armor not bullet unable to penetrate armor. Marciano had a gun for a right man, but whatever I've seen enough of him to realise he can take down a much bigger man

 

Maybe you should ask Holyfield his opinion. He did fight them both. Foreman probably punched a little harder but I doubt it was a lot more. The question must have come up in an interview somewhere. Someone on the board claims to have sparred with Tyson, Lewis, and Klitschko, and claimed that Klitschko was strongest if I remember aright.

By 99' Holyfield was a shadow of his former glory. He's starts dropping losses to John Ruiz, James Toney, Chris Byrd, Larry Donald, guys who would have never been able to touch him before. By 2005 he couldn't get a boxing license in New York because of "diminished skills". Yet you say that he looked good in 2008? You say that there is no difference between Valuev and the Klitschko's. Do you have eyes in your head?

I guess the bullet analogy can be misleading to some people who don't understand the different physical properties of a bullet compared to a fist. When they approximated Bowe's punching power they compared it to being hit by a car's windscreen going 40 mph, and a 16 kg. wooden mallet going 35 mph. Those are all poor analogies which are difficult for a layman to understand, so all that is taken away from such comparisons is that they sound impressive. What we need is a side by side comparison of differently sized boxers using the same units of measurement, not a parable. I don't care how many hats Marciano could hypothetically knock off an ostrich's head. I need a simple psi number.

 

Height and reach is close... Tua has about 25 Lbs. on Marciano. Tua weighed a lot less early in his career and wouldn't have gotten so heavy had he not had to fight such big men.

I'll take Marciano by close decision. I doubt we would see a knockdown unless Tua knocked Marciano down. Even if he did, I think Marciano would get up and win the decision. Marciano had a great chin, a good workrate, decent speed, and excellent stamina. Tua wasn't much of a boxer... Marciano wasn't known for his technical skill either but he would clearly be the better overall boxer in this fight.

 

Holyfield as said more then once,same with Briggs, that Foreman hit them the hardest and it's evident the way they fought him. Totally different. As for the guys claims there's a identical poster on another forum who has added people from that board on facebook, where as the poster on this board won't reveal his identity and has denied being that person on the other board..its up2 whether you believe him or not but don't bring him into this conversation

He looked good against Valuev, Mormek comes out of retirement and Briggs,who looked totally shot in his last fight. You're obviously you're not up to date, Holyfield asked for a shot but was denied even offered to fight for free if I remember correctly but they offer Valuev 2million to fight even though Holyfield was robbed! Klitschko ducked 50yo Holyfield

 

Timing and accuracy is MORE important than strength. Boxing is a martial ART not a power event.

Marcianos power to knock great fighters out is not in dispute. You only need to produce a ten second concusion to win by KO but marciano produced comas. many of his victims took worrying amounts of time to come round. It is staggering anyone can dispute his power.

 

U could find a horse on Uranus.
This is not about what u could find, it is about what exists and what not.

 

There was an interview on this site with Evander Holyfield 2 years ago which I will quote.

I am aware that he has said elsewhere that George Foreman hit him the hardest and I believe him. For single shots George Foreman, Earnie Shavers, and Mike Tyson are probably the best. But you'll notice that he said that Bowe had the ability to get his power on target better than those guys. If you go back a page I believe you were saying that was more important. Sort of how Walcott said that Marciano hit him harder but Louis landed more consistently and threw combinations which ultimately caused more damage.


Anyway, I think I was clear last time but I'll go over this again. Foreman had great power, but the Klitschko's, Lewis, Mike Tyson, and Tua also had great power and if George Foreman's punch was a 10 then they were maybe a 9.5, a 9.3, or a 9. Just because they didn't hit the hardest doesn't mean they didn't hit nearly as hard as Foreman.

 

i think that even yourself can´t believe your own post...

marciano had a great chin? yes he proved it when he was dropped by a 40 years old former mw and lhw archie moore.

marciano had decent speed? hahaha, i can´t think about a 185 pounder more slow than rocky in the history of this planet . i would put my money even in the speed department in the 225 pounder tua.

 

No, no,Tommo you misunderstand. In terms of landing punches Timing Accuracy and technique is ALWAYS more important than strength and power.

Srength and power are important components of a fighter but not more important than landing a punch. Being big and strong wont help anyone land a punch.

At no point does it become more important to have strength and power than being able to land punches. That is ludicrous.

Joe Frazier was slaughtered in 1973 supertlstars at weight lifting by a pole volt champ who presumably had more power and strength than frazier. If power and strength was more important than accuracy, timing and technique then according to you mr pole volt beats frazier in a fight. There is no way that guy is knocking out Joe Frazier, it would not be allowed!