David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

His Daddy is very disappointed in his lack of faith in the old timers!

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You said he looked terrible, When Valuev size wasn't a factor here just his youth and chin, I highlighted the rounds he won I thought you were wanting to dispute it. He fought such a smart fight it was really something. He looked great

 

He turned up to win?

According to Gunboat Smith, Jim was assured the fix was in for the fight and only discovered otherwise the night before the match. So, yeah, I guess in a way he did turn up to win.

 

Part of me thinks that all modern athletes use steroids, but another part thinks Tua might be naturally that big. Samoans are just genetically big thick dudes. If you are Samoan you are forty times as likely as a white person to play in the NFL. So maybe he'd be the same size as Rocky Marciano without modern enhancements and maybe that's all him.

Tyson is another one that's hard to wrap your head around. Who else is built like that? It's like they Frankensteined him in a laboratory somewhere. How big were his relatives? 'Cause maybe he had the genes to be much bigger, but then had like a childhood illness or something stunting his growth so his legs and arms didn't grow huge like his torso. I look at Max Baer and figure something like that happened and knocked about three inches off of his natural height. Otherwise he'd be the same size as Buddy Baer and his son Max Baer Jr. You can see Max Baer's shoulders are those of a 6'6" man and are way too big for him. Though this is all speculation on my part.

 

I think what Bummy is saying is that in an earier era following the training trends required to keep up with the fighters of the day he never would have "grown" like that.

Regardless of being Samoan (and 40% more likely to play in the NFL) at 201lb Tua already was a stumpy dude. He looked more in proportion at that weight and not so unusualy broad, just stocky.

Tua later expanded into a cartoon character that gave the impression he never could have been anything else than the impossibly thick limbed walking treestump he became. But it WAS manufactured because he had had originally been 201 solid pounds. Tua was not a drawn emaciated weekling at 201 either.There was more to come off before the bodybuilding began.

 

Not 40%, homeboy, 40 times. That's 4,000%. I wish the boxing forum would let me post links but I'll have to just give quotes to back up my claim.

This one is from ESPNs website dated May 28th 2002. The title is American football, Samoan style by Ted Miller.

Here's an article from CBSNews Sept. 17, 2010 American Samoa Football Island by Scott Peley

I think that thick stocky look might be Samoan genetics and all natural. Tua looks a lot like Mark Hunt the kickboxer/mma fighter who's 5'10" 74" reach 264 lbs.

 

The Samoans are obviously a strong race of people who respond very well to bodybuilding. maybe they also do very well at Sumo?

When Tua trained using traditional boxing methods he was not a bag of bones at 201lb.

 

Tua wasn't exactly getting hit by every punch his opponents threw either, his bob and weave style may have been a bit mechanical and predictable, but so was Marciano's. Neither was a punching bag, but neither has any real advantage over the other in defense. Ie, both are getting hit with the same regularity. And Tua clearly has advantages in chin and power department.

 

I didn't question his stamina. Being a big hock doesn't mean he could punch the wall down. Im saying his punching didn't pack the destructive wallop that Marciano's did. Just cos Tua walked thru his shots , dont mean he could walk thru the Rocks.

 

I don’t disagree with much of what you say here.

I think it takes a fighter with that sort of style, a lot of discipline to consistently stick with their dynamic defence and not abandon it as circumstances unfold.

In that sense Raocky Marciano had the ideal mental makeup, and Charlie Goldman really drilled it into him.

Tua didn't realy have the patience for the style, either in terms of training for it, or implementing it in the ring.

 

Marciano was never ever predictable. Rocky could not have been more UNPREDICTABLE.


Marciano with his awkward rhythm breaking, counter mauling style was imposible to predict. He got hit but you had to be either fast or lucky to time him.

Tua on the otherhand had good head movement but if his head went to one side you knew it was coming back the other way. If Tuas head went down you knew it was coming back up. Marciano reacted as things hapened not in case they happened. Sadler told Foreman to throw a right when fraziers head went down because you could follow the sequence. Goldburg would tell Rocky the same if he fought Tua.

 

Good post. Rocky had more dimensions than he is given credit for. He could also move fast when he wanted to and was seen as slow only because he chose to move that way.

 

Marciano came in behind shoulder and elbows, a lot of precise hitting champions wearing much smaller gloves only got him with deflections and grazes.

 

I have seen journymen maulers outweighed by 40 pounds or so who frustrate and exhaust gigantic heavyweights with their pace and inside spoiling. Sure they lose but they dont punch like marciano. Nothing a big man hates more than not getting to rest.

 

Marciano unpredictable in his movevements? Sorry, but that description fits boxers like Loche or Whitacker or Griffo, but certainly not Marciano, from all the available footage I've seen of him.