David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

So as a manager would you match your young novis against a man with more reflexes, speed, stamina, courage, endurance, ability, knowledge, instinct, will power and experience all because he has an Artificial weight advantage? ......I dont think so!

Sure, if all factors are equal weight tells and that is why there are weight divisions. But the crusp has to be when all other factors are equal. If all other factors are equal speed tells or power tells or experience tells...weight is just another factor.

I understand your point about how the heavyweight division is the only division where the fighters hav grown and are seemingly less comparable through the eras. I get that, at least i would get it if i could somehow disregard the fact that the majority of the time the comparisons are made between the same sized men weighing more or less than each other. Taller and shorter men of the same size chosing to be heavier. yesteryear it was the opposite, taller and shorter men of the same size chosing to be lighter. 50 years ago heavyweights were 12lb underweight now they are 30lb overweight. Same men, different trends.

Fighters are chosing to be bigger today and its not just heavyweights. take a look at what the rehydrating boxers of the lower weights are doing! Its not making them better they are just looking for an edge when all other things are equal but by and large it is neutralized when the other man is doing the same thing too.

We CAN compare fighters of a different era because the advantage is not functional if it is neutralized in its own era and artificial against another.

 

It's interesting to see how this thread goes on and on when the best point was made above " what has Rocky being an ATG have to do with him competing with Tua? "

That was the question, head to head ... it's a mismatch and there is not one man here who would honestly bet their last dollar on Marciano despite whatever spin they are taking here ...

 

You are quite right, I do not intend to bet my last dollar on the outcome of a boxing match any time soon.

I would further advise you not to either!

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As solid as I think Tua is, I think Marciano outpoints him, we have all seen some real class boxing from Rocky, whereas Tua was known as a wrecking ball of a fighter but if he couldn't beat Rahman or Chris Byrd, I can't see him doing much of a job on Rocky.

 

If Rocky can take Tua's punch, I would lean towards him. I think I already stated that. The problem is that Tua delivered more power, perhaps much more, than any of Rocky's opponents.

Yes, even Archie Moore. I know, sacrilege.

 

I think it would have bounced around in a splintered fashion. Fighters of that era did not have a lot of consistency, perhaps because it was such a deep and powerful era.

 

This type of a thread does not deserve to exist without a poll, let alone exist for so long.
In addition its subject is quite idiotic and more exactly: mismatchic.
Still, it is good to see idiots exposing themselves again.

 

I like how Marciano is all things to his fans. Monster-destroyer one minute, master boxer the next. And if you give them an inch, they try to take a mile. Agree with them that Marciano's defense was "underrated" and they talk about him as if he's Floyd Mayweather. Seriously, Marciano has the most delusional nutbag fans on this forum and that's saying something.

 

I really don't see what anyone is seeing with Tua. Tremendous power but a LAZY fighter who rarely showed up in good shape. If you put a lazy fighter in the ring with an all time great the all time great is more than likely going to find a way to win.

We have one guy that ran 12 miles each day (including 6 miles on Christmas morning) and another guy that trains by stuffing his fat face with Burger King.

One guy scored a clutch knockout with his nose literally sliced open and hanging off his face, and the other stops punching back the second you hit him in the body.

I know a sparring partner who sparred with Tua on numerous occasions. Yes he vouched that Tua has "scary" power but affirms that he is also as lazy and unmotivated as they come. He also confirms that Tua hates to be hit to the body. Now noone likes to be hit to the body but he tells me Tua noticeably stopped fighting hard when hit to the body.

He feels Marciano would win this one between 10-15 rounds. I concur.

 

i ask you once again what are the most important factors in winning a fight ?

even better put these factors in order of importance then decide how many tua has over marciano

skillset
consistency
willpower
experience
functional size
speed
accuracy
endurance
courage
knowledge
durability
instinct
versatility

 

And I understand this, but when it comes time to separate elite fighters (not silver or gold glovers) weight is the criterium used. The others mentioned are realized in a fighter's rise through the ranks to the top. Again, we are speaking here of guys who are elite, who have realized their dominant assets (and best hidden their failings), not just two guys out of a gym.. All things being equal (which they never are), functional size is a huge factor.

Again, where are the dominant 185 pound power punching elite heavyweights today? In this supposed weak era?

 

Size has never been a significant determiner of who wins fights in the hwt division. Lower divisions sure but not in the hwt division. That's boxing 101. I interviewed Angelo Dundee a few years before he died and he stated exactly this....right now we are in a era of big slow heavyweights but mark my words that this will pass and smaller, agile more talented hwts will dominate once again.

 

The dominant 185lb champion would weigh more today but the same guys exists. They are NOT cruiserweights.

There have actualy been a lot of champs who would have weighd close to Marciano weight in another era. Obviously not Lewis, Bowe, Klitschkos or valuev but pretty much everyone else.

They would not be cruiserweights, that is for lightheavy bodybuilders, in fact the cruiserweight division is a hurdle today for big men to bypass. Nobody wants to be a cruiserweight.

Weight is a deciding factor at elite level but no more than a lot of other factors like experience, heart, speed, pace, skill etc etc.

 

:good

 

You are corect Tommo that size is an important factor. It is not the only one though. There have always been big guys who could dominate with their size but they used to come and go. Now with a cruiserweight division to bypass it has become a trend. Thats all it is.

Bowe also added weight for the rematch so what? Holyfeild added size for a gameplan but there has always been more than one way to skin a cat. At a lighter weight Holyfeild also flattened Douglas with one punch who was as big as Bowe.

You cant reinvent the wheel, boxing is as old as the human race.