David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Sadly, there is absolutely no chance of this happening again. People have been saying this for two decades (even on ESB in 2004 I was debating this with the kind of posters insisting that a Marciano in waiting was just around the corner ..and guess what, nearly 10 years not much has changed).

Back in 1993 my personal opinion was that the only dominant champ will be either Lewis or Bowe, certainly not Holyfield (this was around the time of Holy regaining the crown too). Obviously I was wrong about Bowe, but the only fighters since who can be called anything close to 'dominant' have been Lewis and the Klitshcko's. This won't change any time soon. Sad, but true.

 

Reading Tommo's post he appears a bit of a wind-up merchant and is obviously too obsessed with size (I mean, Tommy Morrison for ****'s sake ) but, in all honesty, much of what is says is logical and based on what has happened in the division over the past two decades.

 

I certainly don't do this, but occasionally it's obvious that some fighters don't have good champion credentials- like Morrison- despite being a big hitter. He was way too chinny to ever have a long stay at the top in almost any era...at least in modern times anyway.

I'm from the "I'd read about him lots and now I've watched him i'm a bit disappointed to be honest" school of judging many an old timer, obviously footage of some of them live up to those old fight reports but so many simply don't. Too many people fail to grasp that a fight report saying "Joe Gans displayed excellent defence" may read the same as one saying "Floyd Mayweather displayed excellent defence" the reality will be clearly different- the sport has advanced far more than the use of adjectives in the past 100 years.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 

Always a question there, sure!

I am no Rocky fanboy, I have only watched a couple of his fights, but he wasn't exactly Arturo Gatti on the defense was he?

 

Not a myth at all. The first right hand Mercer caught him with was nothing- it totally stunned Tommy, then he was against the ropes offering nothing back, while looking like a rag doll. The first punch Bentt landed and the fight was over. Getting up on rubbery legs and offering **** all, while you have no idea where you are, is not having a good chin. This is like saying Bruno's poor punch resistance was a myth- as if standing erect like a zombie, while being smashed up, is some sort of badge of honour.

I agree about Lewis, his chin wasn't that great but it wasn't anywhere near a bad as often made out. Wlad's was definitely weaker. Not as weak as Tommy's. A poor chin. No doubt.

 

Rocky Marciano finishes Tua. David was a MONSTER in his prime and one of the best fighters to never win a title. Rocky was one of the best, period.

 

So you have never seen small guys beat big guys in boxings gyms? I have and I believe its predominant in any boxing gym around the world......Ive seen little fellas boune huge guys from pillar to post. In martial art competitions there is no weight class. Skill>Size.

 

Morrison was knocked out three times... KO5 Mercer, KO1 Bentt, and KO6 Lewis. He drew with the 8-8 Ross Puritty.

He was getting outboxed by the 10-1 Yuri Vaulin before stopping him in the 5th.

Joe Hipp gave him hell. He suffered a broken jaw and hand vs. Hipp. Hipp had his cheekbone shattered... Morrison was able to stop Hipp in the 9th. The fight was very close after 8 rounds and Hipp was ahead on one card.

A washed up Carl "The Truth" Williams dropped him twice and almost stopped him. Williams was up on two cards after 7 rounds. Morrison stopped Williams while Williams was on his feet in the 8th.

A washed up Razor Ruddock gave him hell and dropped him but Morrison was able to stop him in the 6th.

He stopped washed up Tillis and washed up Thomas, both by 1st round KO in back to back fights. He looked very impressive and the fights were televised. He got big attention for these wins but let's face it... he didn't live up to the hype. He was juiced, he was chinny, and he liked to party... but he was white, he was in Rocky V, he was The Duke's nephew, and he had power.

Don't get it twisted with the win over Foreman. Foreman was not well prepared and assumed he would stop Morrison early. Morrison did a good job of running but let's not take it too far.

Now, Morrison vs. the likes of Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Young, Lyle, Quarry, Shavers, and others? He ain't beating Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Young, or Lyle. He'd have a punchers chance vs. Norton but I doubt he could pull it off. I think he'd beat Quarry by KO (and not due to cuts). Vs. Shavers I'd favor him but Shavers has a puncher's chance.

 

Not just being knocked down or out but Morrison just was not durable at all....anything hitting his chin and he immediately had that far away look in his eyes. His endurance was highly questionable. Ali up to 76 knocks him OUT.

 

Yes the dominant champs have been the klitschkos and Lewis but why is this? Could it be becsuse they carry 230-250lb better than 6'1" guys? could it be that the time spent building up shorter heavyweights into carrying exrtra artificial weight to match the supersized taller heavyweights they spend less focus on skill and hurt the pace they could be fighting at? Could it be lack of competitive journeymen for hopefuls to develop against?

One thing for sure if most of the competative heavyweight fights are the actual title fights then the winner of the title fights has a great edge over the contenders who reach title level with fewer competative fights to draw from their experiences.

Think about it, the klitschkos not only have size on their side they have massive experience and are in better shape than anyone else. Talk about having all the advantages. They are taking on vertual novices compared to their own 50 fight plus records. This is why they are so hard to beat their contenders are often fat, inexperienced and undersized. If the challengers were more experienced, in a more athletic shape then being undersized would not be so bad.

How do we go about getting the chalengers more competative fights before they fight for a title?

Even youth isnt an advantage at heavyweight now!

 

If 5'10" 185 lb runts were the optimal heavyweights, then why aren't we seeing light heavies and cruisers jumping up and dominating the heavyweight scene? It goes against basic economics - what, they don't want to make more money? The average LHW today is about 185 lbs in the ring or more. Roy Jones in his prime was about 182-185lbs in the ring. They wouldn't even have to gain weight, you can fight at HW at under 200 lbs. If all the smaller heavyweights are fat with no skills, why can't the LHWs and CWs take over? Let me guess, they have no skills either, unlike the runts in black and white.

 

5'10" and 185lb is not the optimal heavyweight,when did i say that?

i did say 5'10" and 201lb was once Tuas weight but he "chose" to weigh more.

218lb was once Riddick Bowes weight.

226lb was once lenox Lewis's weight.

Evander Holyfeild once weighed 169lb.

All these fighting men chose to be heavier. Would they have been unsuccessful without the extra weight? I dont think so, I think all were great fighters destined to make it from the word go.

 

Wife working late tonite, too many Merlots before dinner, simply another example of comparing different fighters from different eras!! If you can't match fighters within 10-15 years of each other, you're simply reaching at straws. Wills, Dempsey, Langford? Different fighters, weight, tone, etc...in the late 20th century. Lewis, Klit bros.? Different fighters, weight, tone, etc...in the 20's-30's-40's-50s. Patterson in 2000? How about Monzon in 2000? etc, etc...IMHO the only bout that fits my parameters is a Rock-Frazier scrap and, even then the eras come into play to a point. Hey! I'm a tad tipsy tonite but can't we all agree that different decades/eras can't reasonably be debated?

 

Tommo you are as lost as they come.