De La Hoya - Trinidad Revisited - Not Such A Robbery?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PowerPuncher, Jan 27, 2012.


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  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I remembered this fight as being an outright robbery and considered it as DKP paying off the judges. Anyway I just watched it again today. Now without scoring it as such I felt allot of the first 6 rounds were quite close. Oscar certainly outlanded Tito in all those rounds but Tito came forward and landed the bigger blows, in the rounds where little was landed he does have a case of sorts based on the effective aggression argument. Foreman said after 'I could even see it 5-1 for Trinidad', which is ridiculous but shows how close it was in terms of there being little action and no one was looking a class apart. The crowd were also booing and Oscar was the 1 making it negative, you can see subconsciously the judges may have sided with the aggressor.

    In the second half rounds 7 and 8 Trinidad seemed to start finding his range a bit more, landing more decent shots in rounds where little happened. Oscar flurried at the end of those rounds but I still think Tito landed the better punches and controlled those rounds more, a case could be made either way for those rounds. Rounds 9 and 10 I certainly think Oscar did more, close rounds still.

    In rounds 11-12, Oscar did literally nothing, rarely even looked to counter, just flat out ran and he looked tired from being on his bike for so long, wide Trinidad rounds.

    Other things to note are the HBO team cheerleading Oscar and making a fuss over everything he did. I think this influences the viewer a bit. Mind you Lederman had it 114-114, but then again I think he's terrible at scoring fights

    So overall I still think Oscar edged more than 6 rounds but I can see the case for Trinidad edging 6 rounds. I didn't follow the politics of the time too much, why no big money rematch? Did Trinidad want 50% or more against the Cash Cow?
     
    PowerPuncher, Jan 27, 2012
    PowerPuncher, Jan 27, 2012
    #1
  2. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    Why no immediate Whitaker, Mosley rematch;)
     
    Lester1583, Jan 27, 2012
    Lester1583, Jan 27, 2012
    #2
  3. MMJoe

    MMJoe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    De la Hoya got ripped off in that one IMO.
     
    MMJoe, Jan 27, 2012
    MMJoe, Jan 27, 2012
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Robbery.

    Tito wanted the lion share for a rematch at lmw I believe.
     
    lufcrazy, Jan 27, 2012
    lufcrazy, Jan 27, 2012
    #4
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    Robbery. Could only be scored 8-4 or 9-3 Oscar. I had it 8-4.
     
    horst, Jan 27, 2012
    horst, Jan 27, 2012
    #5
  6. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    As far as i remember Oscar outboxed Tito early and flat out ran in the latter parts of the fight.

    Oscar won.

    But I didn't mind the robbery decision;)
     
    Lester1583, Jan 27, 2012
    Lester1583, Jan 27, 2012
    #6
  7. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Tito landed three punches a round I'd be surprised. Guy could not land. Oscar ran around too much and his style was annoying, but fact of the matter is he landed more punches in each and every round in that fight, and Trinidad could not land and was utterly befuddled. Trinidad walked around the ring like a mummy who did not know how to cut off a ring or get inside. Oscar rat a tatted him throughout, and that includes the famed last few rounds where he mostly ran. Yes, even those rounds he actually still outlanded Trinidad. Crap fight but Oscar clearly won unless slowly moving forward throwing a few hard punches that miss for 12 rounds wins you a fight.
     
    apollack, Jan 27, 2012
    apollack, Jan 27, 2012
    #7
  8. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm no Oscar fan but it was a bad decision, that's all.
     
    red cobra, Jan 27, 2012
    red cobra, Jan 27, 2012
    #8
  9. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Oscar got robbed in this one. Just as bad a decision as Ali Norton III.
     
    round15, Jan 27, 2012
    round15, Jan 27, 2012
    #9
  10. HawkFan16

    HawkFan16 Unshot/In My Prime Full Member

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    DLH clearly lost 11 and 12. That's it. If you want to be really nice to Trinidad, you might be able to give him 9 and 10, but that's a big stretch too. Either way, DLH won at least 8 rounds of that fight, and 9 is definitely fair. The only other round that I remember being arguable for Trinidad was round 4 I think. The worst you can give Oscar for the first 9 rounds is 7 or 8 of them. If you're sucking Trinidad off, you can give him 1, 4, 11, and 12. And 1 and 4 are reaches at best, too. The MOST an unbiased observer would say Trinidad won in that fight was 4 rounds. Oscar straight up outclassed him, but since DLH wasn't promoted by Don King, he lost.
     
    HawkFan16, Jan 27, 2012
    HawkFan16, Jan 27, 2012
    #10
  11. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    I watched that fight the night it happened. After five rounds, and despite the HBO cheerleading, I had the fight scored 2-2-1 in rounds. In my opinion Trinidad gave away the next three rounds following Oscar and not punching, but then Oscar gave away the last four by fleeing, literally fleeing and doing nothing. So I scored it for Trinidad by one point.
    It was a close fight, and a very disappointing fight. Neither man fought well. Oscar was, I believe, scared to death. Remember his comment after the fight that the plan was 'not to get hurt'? Trinidad did nothing to cut him off and make him fight. Oscar very very rarely threw left hooks, his big punch, especially after a Trinidad counter hook hurt him , I think, in about the 6th or 7th, and precipitated his flight.
    How somebody could score 8 rounds for Oscar is utterly beyond me, but we all look at different things, I suppose. If you watch the video, make sure and catch my favorite Lampley moment of all time: in the first 3-4 rounds, Oscar lands a good uppercut and Trinidad backs up. The following 3/4 punches all miss, but Lampley calls it a "blistering combination." Classic.
     
    greynotsoold, Jan 27, 2012
    greynotsoold, Jan 27, 2012
    #11
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OSCAR: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
    TITO: 10,11,12

    I guess that scorecard won't be to popular? I actually have never scored this one before. It felt like a robbery to me, it felt like Oscar won it pretty big and that's the way I see it when I actually put pen to paper over it. To be honest, I can't really see how anyone comes up with this fight for Trinidad. The above scorecard doesn't make me comfortable, I hate scoring round after round for one guy, but that's the way I saw it, and if I was to watch it again with "benefit of the doubt" type eyes I think I could only hack up 4 and 9 for Tito. I admit these could be scored either way. That gives me a card of 7-5, at best for Trinidad and I can't see how I could see it any other way.

    I thought Oscar's punching was consistently brilliant when he went on the attack, and I think the variety of leads was great to see. He flushes a one-two off a lead left uppercut at one point, leads with hooks to the body, jabs, right hands, you name, every punch really. He doesn't do a lot of punching, but he certainly lands mare than Trinidad by a ways up until he quits fighting. He outlanded him in round 9, which I know is a big one on Tito fan's cards. I think you could give 9 to Tito, but Oscar starts very strong with varied attacks, goes on his bike, but finishes up pretty strong in the last ten seconds with flurries and combos. You can't ignore them as though it were some cheap parlour trick, they are scoring punches, and for me they shadow the round for De La Hoya.

    Round 4 is the cricial round to me, as Oscar gets hit hard here twice just standing around and waiting. After that, he never really stops moving, which dominates the flavour of the fight. It works for him though, and Trinidad often looks set in stone, missing punches by literally a foot on a couple of occasions late on. It's such a high energy style though, and I think that gets underplayed a bit. Look how many steps Oscar has to take to keep ahead of Tito in these middle rounds, a ratio of four to one wouldn't surprise me. It's basically an aerobic workout in the middle of a boxing match. There wasn't any decision by Oscar to move those last three rounds, he just didn't have the energy to fight. The best camp he'd ever had couldn't supply him with that kind of energy against a high pressure style. He doesn't get beaten up though, apart from in the twelfth, because Trinidad is knackered also. In fact...they start to look a little like Cotto-Margarito I

    I'm honestly not dengrating them though, in spite of Oscars sometimes stiff-shined gallloping style and Trinidad's muted, thumping pursuit, this is just about Oscar's best display. I thought he won handily and deserved the decision. I think Trinidad got exposed a bit here, finally, but showed good discipline and another facet to his game. He perhaps would have done better had he boxed with a bit less discipine, sometimes though?
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    #12
  13. Goyourownway

    Goyourownway Insanity enthusiast Full Member

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    I had Trinidad winning two of the earlier rounds(don't recall which one's) and had him winning the last three.It's grossly overrated as an actual robbery,but considering how significant a fight it was,I suppose that's understandable.
     
    Goyourownway, Jan 27, 2012
    Goyourownway, Jan 27, 2012
    #13
  14. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not a fan either. I had him sweeping the first ten rounds, though.
     
    Quick Cash, Jan 27, 2012
    Quick Cash, Jan 27, 2012
    #14
  15. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Round 1 was close.....Very. Rounds 4, 10, 11, 12....Trinidad.
     
    Robbi, Jan 27, 2012
    Robbi, Jan 27, 2012
    #15
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