Dear Chin Checkers...

I'm not sure you can really read to much into Andrade's knockdown. It's not like he was really hurt. He got caught very clean and went down, but showed in the remainder of the fight that he has an excellent chin.

As for Peter, I think he needs to be downgraded to average. McCline is not a puncher, and he had Peter reeling.

Pavlik's chin is still good. He weathered a hell of a lot of punches from Taylor.

It is possible for guys with good chins to get knocked down once in awhile. There seems to be this prevailing attitude among some fans that if you even get slightly wobbled or suffer a flash knockdown suddenly your chin sucks.

 

It all depends on how much they like the fighters.

 

Whilst we have the chin-checkers opinion's, I'd like to ask how they'd rate the following fighters beards out of ten:

Manny Pacqauio

Wlad Klitschko
Jean-Marc Mormeck
Darnell Wilson
David Haye
Enzo Maccarinelli
Ricky Hatton
Floyd Mayweather
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley

 

Pavlik has a chin of steel. When you look at the hits he took the first couple were right on and would have floored a mere mortal.

As for Peter his chin is still rock solid. McCline hit hit with all of his weight behind it and I don't care who you are - if a 278lb man smacks you straight on even a steel chin is going to get dented.

Andrade is weak.

 

True. :yep

 

Andrade dropped from 'titanium' to 'cast iron'. For example, peak Holyfield was cast iron, McCall was titanium.

Peter dropped from a percieved 'iron', to 'average'.

 

Manny Pacqauio - Good

Wlad Klitschko - Shaky

Jean-Marc Mormeck - Average

Darnell Wilson - Iron

David Haye - Shaky

Enzo Maccarinelli - Glass

Ricky Hatton - Good

Floyd Mayweather - Good

Bernard Hopkins - Iron

Joe Calzaghe - Good

Miguel Cotto - Average

Shane Mosley - Good

 

All knockdowns are NOT created equal. Some are relatively minor like the Andrade KD, and therefore shouldn't count too much against a fighter's chin rating - others seem more serious, like the KDs suffered by Pavlik and Peter, and therefore should be factored in.

As far as Peter is concerned, the jury's still out. I've been up front in placing Peter on the "questionable" list. It remains to be seen if the McCline KDs were a fluke, and what was really signficant was Peter's recuperative ability, or whether they indicate that his beard is worse than seems to be the case based on his OVERALL career to date.

Similarly, Pavlik - who had been down before, btw, accounting for his lower rating prior to the Taylor fight - is also a fighter who belongs on the "questionable" list. It could be that he is one of these guys who can get decked, but has enough heart and recuperative ability to get up. As with Peter, we need to see how his career plays out to know for sure.

In sum, on both Peter and Pavlik, the jury's still out and both their chins are, imo, "questionable" at this point.:yep

 

Are you ******ed???? Andrade has to have by far the sturdiest chin in boxing right now. He has got a freaking beard! ITS OK FOR FIGHTERS TO GO DOWN after getting hit alot of things can attribute to that not just the chin alone. if your still questioning Andrades chin look at the rest of the fight or the Kessler fight. that was 12 rounds of pure Punching practice for Kessler.

 

:yep

 

Yeah, we're bigtime tough - which you should be, imo. Too many boxing fans want to give fighters a pass for their mediocre punch resistance. They offer all kind of excuses. My favorite it "that punch woulda knocked out ANYONE!" atsch Yeah, sure - prove it! :deal

And yeah, we try to be as "fair" as possible - which is why these questions about "double standards" needed to be addressed promptly! But chinchecking, like any aspect of boxing evaluation, involves a certain degree of interpretation. SOme of the things that need to be considered are:

1. How damaging were the knockdowns a fighter suffered (obviously, flash knockdowns count for less than fighters who are put on ***** street)?

2. Was the fighter scoring the KD/KO a puncher, as indicated by things like their knockout ratio, reputation, etc.

3. How may times has a fighter been stopped? Were they TKOs or legitimate count-outs (KTFO)? Was the fighter unconscious and/or off his feet? Obviously a fighter getting KTFO counts for more against their chin than a TKO. A stoppage while unconscious counts for more than a stoppage while standing.

These are just some of the primary elements that might be examined. But basically this covers it. In answer to your specific questions, then, I would say it is probably unlikely that a fighter's chin would be considered "suspect" while still being rated "iron" and yes, it is possible for a knockdown to not affect a chin rating (this, obviously, would be likely only where the KDs are of the "flash" variety).

If you're interested in a more detailed discussion of this subject, check out my post outlining the essential methodology of chin-checking in the Classic Section:

www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showpost.php?p=476295&postcount=28

 

Good