Dear JT apologists, Ouma IS an overrated fighter.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Amsterdam, Aug 23, 2007.


  1. CASH_718

    CASH_718 "You ****ed Healy?" Full Member

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    Thank you for dropping my IQ 5 points. :roll:
     
  2. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sorry mate, I have to use extreme examples to get the message across.

    It almost makes me angry seeing hordes of American fans betraying common sense, ignoring obvious factors like Hopkin's age, Tarver's general averageness etc...

    I did of course rate fighters like Hopkins and Winky, back when their abilities merited it. Winky was horribly underrated back in his hey-day, I remember how shocked I was to see he was an underdog, a significant one vs Trinidad. I believe that was when I realised how bad the American Boxing Media can be and how powerful it's effect is.
     
  3. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    You're damn right he gets KOed, no matter how many times people want to bring the highly avoided Joe Calzaghe into consideration just because I am one of his biggest fans, but a boxing fan first, that right there is telling that my theory here with Taylor is correct when the biggest defence in Taylor's area is that 'he was competitive with Wright and Hopkins and that Calzaghe's never fought anyone that good'.

    The hilarious part is that Taylor would not even defeat a peak Robin Reid, he'd most definitley get KOed there as well seeing as Hopkins had him on ***** street and Winky stunned him. Nobody who cannot handle even an ounce of pressure from tiny LMW's, all the while being a huge MW is going to do a damn thing to anyone in a peak Reid's class.

    So let's keep downplaying Calzaghe's opposition because there is no other defence in Taylor's direction, meaning that even if you think Calzaghe is ****(which I don't care, it doesn't effect anything involving this situation), I am correct about Jermain Taylor and his disgraceful run to the sport of boxing.

    It'll be 'bye bye' to Jermain Taylor soon enough, but everyone's going to act like they saw it coming.:lol:
     
  4. Guru_Too_You

    Guru_Too_You ESB OG circa '99 Full Member

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    Read above. No talk of Calzaghe's opponents in that one.
     
  5. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    And I'm glad to debate it in civil fashion, no surprise that you aren't taking this stuff personally like others do.:yep



    Eubank's right hand is much more powerful than Hopkins' in my opinion, the Tarver win is very decieving.

    I'll put it this way, Eubank was in great shape, he had been training for months despite signing this fight on short notice, he shaved off the excess muscle that was giving him stamina issue's in the past and was back near his peak physique and was able to go 12 rounds no problem with a monsterous young Calzaghe. I think this fight was the final nail in Eubank's career though, he took a nasty beating here, but he was game enough to rip Calzaghe with right hands plenty of times, shots that Taylor could not eat and if Calzaghe wasn't so fast, it would have been easy for Eubank to take control, Taylor is not that fast and would be driven back by Chris Eubank and KOed, I PROMISE you this and you know how good I am at picking fights.

    Firstly, it's not just outworking him, it's 'skillfully' outworking him and JC is one of the most skilled fighters in the sport bar none, whether people want to believe it or not.

    Secondly, Dawson has been dropped by lesser shots, but not Calzaghe. I presume you are referring to Mitchells right hand? That was a temple shot that landed perfectly and Mitchell WAS a 1 punch KO go, this was his reputation and he surely showed it in sparking Frankie Randall and a prime Manny Siaca, both of whom had great chins. Hopkins is by no means a power hitter, he's just sharply accurate, a true power punching MW would have blown out Tito in a few rounds the way Hopkins was brutalising him... think about that, Hopkins has good break you down power, not 1 punch.

    Dawson is just way too damn much at this point and the Wright and Tarver wins overestimate Hopkins due to their big 'names'.

    Hopkins just can't fire off like he could at his peak, this is evident.

    And Bika KO's Taylor, Taylor's chin is **** and it's going to be exposed in clear with Pavlik. Taylor is nothing against guys his size who can hit.

    Taylor would have been KOed because he can't handle pressure, nobody just sits on the ropes and eats shots like that if they could control the fight, which he couldn't at times.

    And he did provide a challenge to Wright, but Wright is a great LMW, who lack punching power and Taylor is a big well schooled MW, you'd expect him to be competitive. I feel Abraham and Pavlik both would stop Winky at this point and I feel that Winky at MW and higher is overrated on what he can do, this is because of the name and reputation, he's 35 and it's near the end of his run anyway, but we'll see.

    His game plan folded, he succombed to the pressure, he also lost about 4 rounds.

    Technically they are the same size, Taylor is a SMW who parades at MW and that's good for him that he's able to make the weight, so comparisons are fine if you'd like to compare them realistically, but they are two different classes of fighter, even if one doesn't have two P4P names on his resume.

    Kessler is constantly throwing and controlling, and he's not conservative like Hopkins, he showed in multiple scenerio's that he'll trade bombs if it's necessary.

    Pavlik's not on this level and the Bika fight was a horrible version of Calzaghe.

    I feel Kessler loses badly, but that's a testament of Joe's class, Pavlik would get trashes like Lacy did with his lack of defence... hell, 2005 Lacy would have beaten Pavlik also because Pavlik could not push Lacy around and he'll eat Lacy's best in a war and eventually grind down.

    That's fair I guess, but you're overrating Pavlik if you think he has a better chance than a guy with a similiar style, but much more refined in every area, even comparable power.

    That's fine also, I know that I am 'intense', but it's boring if everyone is the same.
     
  6. nervousxtian

    nervousxtian Trolljegeren Full Member

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    Now Robin Reid beats Taylor?

    The sad thing is, no matter what happens in the Pavlik fight, Jermaine has a better resume than Joe Calzaghe.

    I'm not so sure Joe Calzaghe beats Jermaine Taylor these days, and I'm certain Hopkins beats Joe, he'd get countered punched to death.

    I also like how you can excuse the Bika fight for Joe, but can't excuse the same things for Taylor.. wait.. because in the end, we already know what you are.. and that's a hypocrite.

    Also, I'm not sure on your bull**** crap on stuff like 05 Lacy beats Pavlik.. really? How the **** do you know, wait you don't, it just makes your argument look better.

    We know you want to blow Joe Calzaghe, now shut the **** up.
     
  7. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No, Taylor's resume has a list of bigger name fighters, not better fighters. It is full of old and smaller fighters, kind of like Hopkins' flimsy resume.

    A Calzaghe shut-out is more likely than any kind of Hopkins win these days.
     
  8. nervousxtian

    nervousxtian Trolljegeren Full Member

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    I'd pick Bernard over just about anyone under 175.

    He's crafty, tough, dirty, and knows the game better than damn there anyone.

    His resume isn't that great, but you don't defend your title that many times by not being good, ala Joe Calzaghe.

    Bernard's legacy is only hurt from his division being weak for so long, which isn't his fault, nor was it Roy Jones fault for his division being weak.

    I learned a long time ago, don't bet against Bernard.
     
  9. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    How do we know? Because it's not hard to dissect styles, ability and other factors and project a winner, it's very easy actually.

    Bika is a more dangerous opponent than Ouma and you can't deny that. And yes, Reid defeats the overrated Taylor peak/peak, by KO no less.

    If he gets blown out by Pavlik it confirms all of this, resume included, if you want to keep believing that being competitive with an older Hopkins and Wright gives you a superior resume to what Calzaghe has done, then only to be destroyed by an average, but effective man of the same size then keep doing, keep playing ignorant and keep believing everything you're fed.

    Hopkins will not defeat a younger, fresher 168-175 pounder at THIS POINT in his career, he is truly showing his age and it's astonishing that only a few see this.

    But if Hopkins-Calzaghe happens, do you want to bet on it? You're certain that Hopkins wins, how about a large money bet? I am serious.
     
  10. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hopkins is 42. He cannot compete with an elite fighter like Calzaghe now. The same will apply to Calzaghe within the next 6-36 months when he declines. Hopkins is so much slower than he was against Johnson.
     
  11. Mrboogie23

    Mrboogie23 what the?? Full Member

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    I'm not sure why you're going so far out of your way to try and discredit Taylor. Its baffling really.

    He's not overrated or overhyped. It appears that most people hate him and want him to lose. As far as Ouma is concerned he's a solid fighter and Taylor won pretty much every round. People dont always get the KO. People dont like the way Taylor wins. Thats understandable but thats no reason to hate him, he still steps up every time.

    I also completely disagree with you when you're trying to discredit his resume. Its an impressive resume. I dont care how you spin it.
     
  12. maciek4

    maciek4 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am not a Taylor fan and will be rooting for Pavlik but I also dont understand the hate for him. Spinks and Ouma despite being small are still very tough opponents and not easy to knock out. The fact that he was competitive with Hopkins and(those fights could have gone either way) shows you how good he is. Hopkins after those loses went on to easily defeat Tarver and Wright.
     
  13. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Because he's a fraud who has come around at the right time and has enjoyed a red carpet ride with big promotion behind it. It annoys me that people regard him well just for competing with 2 P4P fighters that are for surely ranked, but of the type that is on their way out.

    It also annoys me that being competitive with Wright and Hopkins garners more respect in the boxing world than thrashing Lacy and soon to be Kessler to the fullest, when both are young, hungry top class.

    'But who is Kessler?'. Someone who JT would not a win a ROUND against, someone who the older Hopkins would lose extremely wide too and someone that Winky would get sparked out in 5-6 against. But this is going to garner less credit.

    ..Sorry to go back to JC, but he was shoved in my face as an example in Taylor's defence, so I am throwing him back out there.

    Ouma is a second tier 154 who's been hurt and down, not to mention TKO'd against 154 competition, it was absurd for Taylor not to get the KO with what he was landing and even more absurd for him to fall into Ouma's pressure.

    He's stepped up to Pavlik and it'll be his last, because it's going to end brutally and early and will put things well into perspective. Then everyone will be saying they knew it all along and that he wasn't ever truly a top P4P fighter.:lol:

    Too bad, I've taken names.:yep

    But you see Boogie, I don't judge on 'reputation' or 'name', I judge on what I observe and what I see. I don't know why you doubt me, when I've been correct about these types of things time and time again, I think I've called out every overrated fighter in the last two years to perfection and everyone of them got starched.
     
  14. aliwasthegreatest

    aliwasthegreatest Well-Known Member Full Member

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    actually Ouma was highly touted back when Wright was ruling 154. then lost to Karmazin and lost alot of steam. thats why Taylor gets credit for the win. not some warped version of marketing you've come up with
     
  15. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    But who thinkss Ouma is great? i dont think anybody has claimed that.... he is what he is, a very good fighter...

    After he beats Mora... i take him to rule 154.


    i dont think hes overated because i dont think anyone rates him more then he is... which is a good fighter.