Debate over. Andre Ward is the greatest SMW ever, well clear of Calzaghe.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Kittikasem, Sep 9, 2012.


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  1. Kittikasem

    Kittikasem Guest

    I don't think there can be much debate about this now, for me Ward and Calzaghe are a clear #2 at 168lbs taking all things into consideration (resume, achievement, ability, intangibles, etc - Jones & Toney didn't stay at 168 long enough to challenge the top two spots IMO).

    The short version of my reasoning for this:


    Resume

    - Ward now has three wins at smw better than any wins Calzaghe had at smw. A dominant stoppage over a p4p calibre fighter (Dawson), a dominant UD to win the Super Six tournament (Froch), and a far more dominant win over Calzaghe's best win (Kessler) - Ward clearly has better wins, no contest.


    Achievement

    - Ward has a greater single achievement than any registered by Calzaghe, winning the Super Six tournament. Also, Ward won the WBA title in Nov 2009, then unified with the WBC in Dec 2011, it took him 2 years to become a unified champion. Calzaghe won the WBO title in Oct 1997, then unified with the IBF in Mar 2006, 8 1/2 years later. Ward is The Ring champion already, something it took Calzaghe a decade to achieve. Ward hasn't won the WBO or IBF titles yet, but is holding & defending the two major titles now, and would easily defeat the other title holders. He should do this way before a decade is up.


    Ability

    - Ward was far too much of a technician for a workrate-based, technically deficient fighter like Joe. Think Hopkins vs Calzaghe, except this time the technician would easily have enough energy and stamina to be aggressive and active throughout. Ward has superb skills, defence, speed and generalship. Calzaghe dominated Lacy but couldn't stop him; Ward dominated a better fighter in Dawson and stopped him. Calzaghe beat Kessler; Ward totally dominated Kessler. Calzaghe's flurrying would've been ineffective against someone with the defensive skills of Ward, this fight wouldn't be close, Ward would land on Joe again and again and again, while taking nothing of note in return, Calzaghe would be sorely outclassed.




    I really think the time has come for Calzaghe fans to admit that Andre Ward has already proven to be the greatest supermiddleweight of all-time, taking all factors into consideration. (though even if they won't, they must surely know it's only a matter of time now before even the most extreme Calzaghe fanatics admit the truth)

    This content is protected


    :smoke
     
    Kittikasem, Sep 9, 2012
    Kittikasem, Sep 9, 2012
    #1
  2. Bladegunner

    Bladegunner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nice work popkins.
     
    Bladegunner, Sep 9, 2012
    Bladegunner, Sep 9, 2012
    #2
  3. ajackman1

    ajackman1 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Great thread. Ward resume is better and he has much more all around ability.
     
    ajackman1, Sep 9, 2012
    ajackman1, Sep 9, 2012
    #3
  4. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    Absolutely 100% agree, Andre Ward is the greatest Super Middleweight of all time!!
     
    rorschach51, Sep 9, 2012
    rorschach51, Sep 9, 2012
    #4
  5. Kittikasem

    Kittikasem Guest

    So so much more. :good

    Ward is an elite technician, like a higher weight Floyd Mayweather.

    Calzaghe overwhelmed his opponents with a high workrate.

    Two completely different levels of fighter, skill-wise.
     
    Kittikasem, Sep 9, 2012
    Kittikasem, Sep 9, 2012
    #5
  6. Jaber

    Jaber Guest

    agree
     
    Jaber, Sep 9, 2012
    Jaber, Sep 9, 2012
    #6
  7. Sister Sledge

    Sister Sledge Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Roy Jones Jr. might have something to say about this.
     
    Sister Sledge, Sep 9, 2012
    Sister Sledge, Sep 9, 2012
    #7
  8. Jon Saxon

    Jon Saxon Active Member Full Member

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    Rubbish.

    Roy Jones is the greatest SM and it's ot even close.
     
    Jon Saxon, Sep 9, 2012
    Jon Saxon, Sep 9, 2012
    #8
  9. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ward's victory tonight over drained, past-prime Dawson has nothing on Calzaghe's display against peak genuine super middleweight Eubank.
     
    purephase, Sep 9, 2012
    purephase, Sep 9, 2012
    #9
  10. Collie

    Collie Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Over-reaction after a very good performance.

    You could quite easily argue that Calzage beat a prime undefeated Kessler, fought outside of his hometown more, beat ATG Bernard Hopkins who subsequently went on to win a world title, etc.

    They have two very different styles. Ward is more accomplished skill-wise, Calzage was a good pressure fighter.

    Ward is still young and has a lot of fights yet to go, if he keeps it up he will be rated above Calzage but lets not say he is the GOAT when only 28
     
    Collie, Sep 9, 2012
    Collie, Sep 9, 2012
    #10
  11. Boxalot

    Boxalot Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Carl Froch has a better 168 resume than Joe Calzaghe, quite comfortably in my opinion. Ward is the 168 GOAT.
     
    Boxalot, Sep 9, 2012
    Boxalot, Sep 9, 2012
    #11
  12. Ilesey

    Ilesey ~ Full Member

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    :good
     
    Ilesey, Sep 9, 2012
    Ilesey, Sep 9, 2012
    #12
  13. Boxalot

    Boxalot Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hopkins fight wasn't at 168 so isn't relevant in this thread.
     
    Boxalot, Sep 9, 2012
    Boxalot, Sep 9, 2012
    #13
  14. Hook!

    Hook! Proud member of team G. Full Member

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    happy 20k posts broski
     
    Hook!, Sep 9, 2012
    Hook!, Sep 9, 2012
    #14
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    :lol: what a fantastic troll thread designed to make friends :oops:

    answer these questions before you proceed
    1. What top undefeated fighters has Ward beaten?
    2. What undefeated world champs has Ward fought and beaten?
    3. What fighters has Ward faced with over 20 world title fights?

    Calzaghe beat Bika clearer than Ward. You forget that Calzaghe was an end of career SMW past prime when he was beating Kessler.
    Big difference is Calzaghe beat undefeated prime Kessler. Ward just beat what Calzaghe left.
    Froch is a slow past best SMW and not a better win than Mitchell.
    What has Dawson done at SMW? Not even as much as many of the fighters Calzaghe beat. Still Dawson wasnt a better SMW than Woodhall a SMW title holder.

    Add the other SMW title holders Calzaghe beat in Reid, Veit, Lacy and Brewer plus the top 10 SMWs Calzaghe beat, it is not close. Calzaghes resume is far greater.

    Then jump in and add that Ward has no wins as good as Eubank at SMW before I even go on to bring in Calzaghes achievements at LHW.

    Calzaghe has a far greater resume

    It seems the S6 has fooled you like a child looking at a poster for a toy shop.
    Wards S6 was -
    a Calzaghe leftover in Kessler
    A Green who wasnt even as good as Mkertchyan
    Bika a Calzaghe leftover
    Abraham who was 1-2 in his last 3 fights
    Froch who had lost to Kessler, looked lucky to many against Dirrell and was coming off a MDec over a 43 year old SMW journeyman

    Just looking at Calzaghes resume above and it shows that up

    The belts ward has won are all belts that Calzaghe vacated at some point down the line.
    Kessler was defending Calzaghes vacated WBA title, and Froch won the vacant WBC title to start with.

    Yes ward unified earlier, because Reid wouldnt fight Calzaghe when WBC champ and due to a competition being made. As for the Ring belt. Calzaghe was the first SMW to hold that title and put it together so would have taken longer, but lets remember, Calzaghe beat the top people for that belt. the Ring put Froch above Kessler and moved him into #2 to make the belt happen. theres a difference.
    Yes Ward would beat the other title holders, but lets not forget its a weaker era. Abraham just beat Steiglitz (debateable), who in the previous era was blasted out by Andrade who Kessler schooled

    Think you forget that ward was blowing against slow, low workrate Froch and fading at the end or how Ward was being bust about by Bika in round 12.
    Where as you forget to note a past prime Calzaghe showed Ward the way to beat Kessler and beat Bika easier than ward who was being bust about in the end.
    I think Prime Calzaghe would easily handle Ward.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    joe calzaghe is The only one in history to become Undisputed super middleweight champion he has had 24 championship fights has 3 ATGs on his resume
    Roy Jones Jr
    Chris Eubank
    Bernard Hopkins

    Beat 3 Undefeated Fighters who were or became SMW champions

    mikkel kessler 40-0 world champion
    Mario Veit 30-0
    jeff lacy 21-0 world champion



    joe calzaghe beat 10 world champions 9 of them smw (Veit had world interim title)

    Chris Eubank, was a 2 weight champion and had 24 world tltle fights

    Richie Woodhall had 6 world tltle fights

    Roy Jones Jr was a 4 weight champion and had 25 world tltle fights

    Charles Brewer had 7 world tltle fights

    Bernard Hopkins, arguably the best middleweight of all time he has 25 world tltle fights

    Mikkel Kessler, has 11 world tltle fights 3 x world champion

    Robin Reid had 8 world tltle fights looked unlucky to Ottke by many

    Byron Mitchell had 8 world tltle fights 2 x smw champion looked unlucky to Ottke by many

    Jeff Lacy had 6 world tltle fights

    when has Ward beat someone with over 20 championship fights?......

    calzaghe beat 3 guy with over 24 championship fights

    NAME 1 ATG Ward FOUGHT?........

    JOE CALZAGHE IS 1 OUT OF ONLY 3 BOXERS IN HISTORY TO BE UNDISPUTED AND UNDEFEATED WORLD CHAMPION


    JOE CALZAGHE IS 1 OUT OF 4 MEN IN HISTORY TO HAVE OVER 20 TITLE DEFENCES

    JOE CALZAGHE IS THE SECOND LONGEST-REIGNING WORLD CHAMPION IN HISTORY?.....


    WHEN Andre Wards RESUME MATCH THAT LET ME KNOW
     
    bailey, Sep 9, 2012
    bailey, Sep 9, 2012
    #15
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