OK so I rank mainly on H2H, although that doesn't strictly mean the eye test, resume has to be considered so we know the level at which a fighter is performing. I only include fighters I've watched fight, and I tend not to include active fighters as their placing is too dynamic. So here's my CW list Rank First Last Best Performance 1 Evander Holyfield Dwight Qawi 2 David Haye Jean Marc Mormeck 3 James Toney Vassiliy Jirov 4 Dwight Qawi Leon Spinks 5 Tomasz Adamek O'Neil Bell 6 Steve Cunningham Marco Huck 7 Carlos De Leon S T Gordon 8 Marco Huck Denis Lebedev 9 Jean Marc Mormeck O'Neil Bell 10 O'Neil Bell Jean Marc Mormeck Are there any people you feel should be in that aren't? Any orders that need changing? I'm always a bit caught in two minds about this division because many of the best fighters at the weight range fought before the division existed imo. Guys like Langford, Dempsey, Marciano, Patterson, Joe Walcott, Charles, Tunney Bivins, Jack Johnson but I fell I can't really include them in a CW list as they never fought in a CW division, but I dunno, I'm open to being convinced on that one. Any and all constructive criticisms are welcome and appreciated
There's mine. Although it's pretty old and I may make some changes. H2H beasts who didn't stay long need not apply. #1. Oleksandr Usyk - Mairis Briedis #2. Evander Holyfield - Carlos DeLeon #3. Juan Carlos Gomez - Jorge Castro #4. Tomasz Adamek - O'Neill Bell #5. Marco Huck - Ola Afolabi IV #6. Steve Cunningham - Marco Huck #7. Mairis Briedis - Oleksandr Usyk #8. Denis Lebedev - Alexander Alekseev #9. Murat Gassiev - Yuniel Dorticos #10. O'Neil Bell - Jean Marc Mormeck I Edit: added best performance after the dash.
Pretty close to how I see it but I would have Carlos Deleon and Jirov in for Lebedev and Bell. I think James Toney and Qawi are better than most on the list but they didn't fight at CW long enough to make it on.
Juan Carlos Gomez. I knew there were someone I'd forgotten! I'm surprised you left Haye out tbh. The current fighters will probably get high rankings also, I'm just gonna wait for them to retire or permanently leave the division first.
Like I said, I didn't include top H2H guys (which is what I class those guys as, since I find their résumés a little undesirable) and I agree that Toney and Qawi are awesome at the weight. After Usyk, Holy, Gomez and Briedis, I'd put them at 5 and 6 H2H. Yeah, Juan Carlos is a bit forgotten nowadays but he's one helluva fighter. Cuban POWA! Haye is very overrated imo. Not to be hipster or anything, but I think Bell is better. He never lost to the CW Gatti, and he beat the better Mormeck. Since the time we've found out Enzo was pure hype, I think you could say Dale Brown was better and I wouldn't really bat an eyelid. I had Haye 11-15 iirc. I normally don't think current guys do enough to make lists, but right now the CW division is in its golden era. The last 5 years have had more elite talent than any other division in boxing IMO and some or the guys are so good I can't fathom leaving them off. I wrote this: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...200lbs-super-mutants-educate-yourself.643753/
Gomez was pretty damn good. Good enough that James Toney didn't want any part of him. I remember reading that he turned down a fight with Gomez. I really thought Gomez had a chance to do something at Heavyweight but it just didn't pan out. Very underated fighter for sure.
I think he's awful for Toney. He's like a bigger, better and longer Reggie Johnson, and he's against a slower, less mobile Toney. Like Usyk and Byrd, I think he'd beat Toney at arm's length, but have trouble with him on the inside. Everyone has trouble with Toney on the inside.
"I tend not to pick active fighters as their ranking is too dynamic" I base this almost entirely off Leon Spinks the way he went from unbeaten HW champ in the world to a journey man. We just never know how a career will pan out until its over. Chances are Usyk will be my new number 2.
Yep, as much as I love James Toney he clearly avoided guys that were movers later in his career and preferred and excelled against bangers. I caught all kinds of grief in another thread because I suggested that Sven Ottke could beat James. Toney was definitely at his best went he could counterpunch and use an opponents aggression against them. Uysk, Gomez and even Orlin Norris are all guys that I feel would beat James at Cruiserweight
What did Haye do to be rated so much higher than Bell when Bell beat the better version of Mormeck and more convincingly? In fact what did Haye do to be rated above most of those guys? His resume was middling to poor, he made no title defences and he displayed a number of stylistic weaknesses that other fighters could capitalise on. He doesn't categorically dominate in any areas that would justify his inclusion at number two that I can see. "Are there any people you feel should be in that aren't?" As others have said I'd include JC Gomez, and I think JP Hernandez, Grigory Drodz and Dennis Lebedev deserve to be considered. Lebedev should be rated above Huck I think. He was an extremely solid CW.
Jeez, is literally every thread this guy starts a ‘Hey let’s talk about me’ thing? It’s all ‘let’s discuss my ratings,’ because, hey, what’s more important than how lufcrazy rates people in a division with his own silly ‘I don’t consider these guys who were champions at this weight to actually be competitors at this weight’ way of doing things. How about starting a threat to talk about the best cruisers, super middles or whatever without making it about ‘my ratings’? What an ego.
I fully understand the criticism of Haye tbh, but I am a real sucker for hype and I really bought into it with Haye. I think his speed and power would be too much for most CW fighters, but I understand those who don't rank him as high. Lebedev was a real tough one for me. I need to rewatch his fight with Huck tbh, but I agree there. JP Hernandez doesn't make the cut for me, I didn't rate him during his pomp tbh, I'm happy leaving him out.
