Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sas6789, Apr 7, 2021.
Debut RJJ vs Von Horn (for the IBF JMW title), who wins?
I'm trying to picture Roy losing in my head and it isn't working
Van who ?
Roy late KO. Van Horn too basic for even debut Jones.
I think Roy could beat Van Horn in his amateur debut.
Van Horn obviously.
As good as Roy was, an absence of seasoning / pro experience just can't be faked. While Roy might have done well (front running with his speed / energy) if everything went well, no amount of 12 or 15 rounds spar sessions is going to allow him to hang with a pro champion throughout a title fight in little gloves under hot lights with TV exposure after a huge media build-up.
It could conceivably break him psychologically....he might get fouled and quit - that's his career done; or he gets cut early from a head-clash and has to fight 10 more rounds cut and loses from excessive caution. Who knows what that'd do to his confidence/.Then there's all the other pro tricks - working an eye over the long course, hidden low blows, bodyshots which aren't emphasized in the am's, elbows and forearms...Van Horn wasn't a dirty fighter but he beat some very good and cagey fighters.
I think very highly of Jones' skill set, including at his amateur stage; so he'd probably not get stopped but there's a reason novice pro's don't fight champions. Its such an insane idea that that no modern sanctioning body, despite the money it could generate, would ever do it. Jones Sr did the correct thing is acclimatizing Roy to pro boxing slowly....if he hadn't and had been greedy for earlier success, Roy absolutely would have had a shorter peak.
Van Horn probably on only points, with a small possibility of Jones winning by fluke kayo.
Who were the very good fighters Van Horn beat?
There's probably only Lindell Holmes.
Holmes was a good fighter. And Roy sparred with him in the early 90's.
Correct, maybe in the late 80's too if memory serves. Lindlel Holmes was a v/cagey fighter with solid power, and I also consider Robert Hines a very good fighter. His Hilton win is a good 'un.
Of course, I say that knowing that posters here are so used to judging / analyzing champions and ATG's that the standard of a 'very good fighter' has been pushed waaaay off into the spectrum.
This is a great post.
I really enjoyed reading it.
As a huge fan of Roy's, I don't think that you can just look at their abilities and their records and then predict an easy win. Like you have noted, experience is absolutely vital. And then there's the other circumstances which you have mentioned which may have come into play.
I think the biggest issue would have been the distance of the fight. Because like you've noted, there's just no way a fighter can replicate that in the gym. So fighting a 12 round title fight when you've never even had an 8 round pro fight before would have been an absolutely huge challenge. And then there's the nervous energy etc, due to the pressure. This is why I respect what you've written so much. As soon as I read the thread, I immediately thought of Lomachenko. As gifted as he is, the transition from amateur to professional is huge. So this would have been a huge task for Roy. However, despite everything that you have written and everything that I've just spoken of, I would honestly still have given Roy a reasonable chance of beating him on a decision.
Admittedly, I've not seen too much of Van Horn's career. I've only seen a few fights. But although he legitimately won a JMW title, he was a career B-C level fighter who only held the JMW title for a very brief period. He won the title against a fellow career B-C level guy, before losing it immediately afterwards. So he was never a seasoned world champion who was a genuine world class, top level fighter. And had he have found himself in a stronger era, the likelihood is, he'd never have been good enough to have won a title and then had a prolonged run as a world champion. The biggest win of his entire career was against Lindell Holmes up at SMW. And Lindell Holmes was a good fighter. So that was a very good win. But at JMW, he only beat guys of a low level, similar to the level that Roy fought at during his first 2 years as a pro.
There's a lot of 'ifs' in my thought process. But I think that if Big Roy had have been extremely confident and Roy could have kept his composure and paced himself, then he would definitely have had a very reasonable chance of getting the win.