Defeating Greatest Opposition of All Time (Top 20)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by eltirado, Dec 29, 2017.


  1. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    17.5 is the median wins of his opponents. The lowest 16 have 17 or fewer, the highest 16 had 18 or more; so the median is 17.5.

    2
    3
    4
    6
    6
    7
    7
    8
    9
    9
    12
    12
    16
    16
    17
    17
    -----
    18
    22
    22
    24
    25
    28
    28
    29
    29
    30
    30
    31
    32
    32
    35
    42

    When you combine the opponent's median wins and losses, you can see that Andre Ward's typical opponent was 17.5-1. Ward scores relatively low because he only fought at the championship level a little more than a third of his career. Half of his career is fighting beginners and prospects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  2. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So whats the median value for this 32-0 Thai
    He fought 16 consecutive 0-0 pro-debuts, then 15 subzero 1-1 & closed his career with a 50-1 boxer

    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    0-0
    ----------
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    1-1
    50-1
     
  3. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Wouldn't it just be .5-.5?
     
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  4. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you want to add a tangible element to this, you can make a depth section (this will favor boxers who fought more fights), but you still have to add the actual ratio.

    Willie Pep, Kid Azteca, Archie Moore will be in the top 10 quantity of opposition total wins (an estimate because that is a lot of counting) their wins were at high level, so you can assume a higher total than other old timers who fought more debuts or lesser unknown boxers.

    From the more recent era, De la Hoya, Muhammad Ali, Arthur Abrham, Holyfield will have decent depth quantity win numbers.

    The whole point of calculating exact ratio is to eliminate blurring & rounding up, can Vasyl Lomachenko go 32-0 at this rate? Then if he does, he will be on every list regardless of how we look at it.

    For now I selected the Exact Opposition ratio if want accurate results, leaving no room for rounding up or numeric compromise
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  5. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In other words a 1-0 vs 1-1 boxer who retires after a single fight scores higher...

    After 32 fights vs capable Mua Thai 0-0 boxers, including a KO1 win vs a 50-1 (world champion), the median opponent of the lone win boxer is stil higher than the Undefeated 32-0 Thai world champion?

    In exact ratio (used in this list)

    Single win boxer will go home with 1.00 ratio
    32-0 Thaichamp will go home with 4.06 ratio
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  6. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    I just like the median more than the average because each opponent is weighted the same. When you take the average of some boxers about 8 percent of their opponents account for 50% of the losses. One or two data points could drastically change the balance of a 50 point set. The median corrects for that.
    I thought you'd calculated that Myung Woo Yuh scored 6.0 on your scale? Wouldn't that put him above Muhammad Ali?
     
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  7. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    I had the same problem with how your average scale accounted for debut opponents. On your scale Myung Woo Yuh fought a third of his fights against debut opponents and those all counted as undefeated opponents. Then he fought a bunch of novices who didn't have many losses or wins because his division was weak. He's got a stellar 6.0 rating on your metric but he's only got a 13-2 median rating on my scale. I think in this case not having him shoulder to shoulder with Muhammad Ali is the right call.
     
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  8. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This list is more refined
    #20 Muhammad Ali (5.963)
    #21 Myung Woo Yuh (5.895)

    I already should you the major unreasonable flaw in your formula, a 1-0 boxer who beat up a 1-1 ranked higher than a 32-0 Thai World champion who has a 50-1 title fight win, so that formula is not even close to general use (you might favor it because it helps your personal favorite, as with all emotional driven ideas...its easily flawed/played)

    Myung Woo Yuh is a top ATG @108 (by the majority) & even considered the GOAT of 108 (by some)

    When a light Flyweight can line up 17 consecutive Title defenses, he ends up high on this list...Its not wishful rounding up, tailored averaging, hard numbers that favors exceptional ATGs, Gold Medalists & Elite level boxers

    The pooling is not trivial, those are actually the top of Half-Million boxers, so what are the odds? That the ATGs are in the Upper Elite 0.1%, you can't Kell Brook your way into this list, Kell Brook can Median his way into your list if he stay active as long as Archie Moore, but he will never be able to get into the top of this list with the exact ratio.

    Using any formula deviating away from the exact ratio & you will start noticing a big % of non-elite boxers taking space. The lowest value names you can see on the current list are Gold Medalists or ATGs, so its obviously a very exclusive list, if we are picking on Myung Woo Yuh

    Top 25 will come soon (just double checking)...4 ATGs & 1 currently active P4P