Deficiencies, Fallacies & Half-truths in world class fighters...

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by slip&counter, Aug 24, 2010.


  1. TheUzi

    TheUzi MISSION INCOMPLETE Full Member

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    Yip,,he has no business at heavyweight. His commentry and anayltical skills surprised me somewhat...very good to listen to
     
  2. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    This is who Tarver reminds me of with his style.



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  3. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Deficiency:

    Mike McCallum realised to late what he needed to do to progress his career.

    He should've left the Kronk much earlier as it's clear Steward was using him.

    Should've stopped chasing the Hagler and Leonard rainbow as they were never gonna fight him because he wasn't a big enough draw and should've taken more risks.

    Realised too late (after the loss to Sumbu Kalambay) that he could transition from offense to defence so well and gain that confidence within himself to be more active. After which he beat Toney in their first fight imo. Which is one of the best technical chess matches you'll ever see.


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRqHA6DGxw[/ame]


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBaWjyoKFME[/ame]
     
  4. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Deficiency:

    Roy Jones didn't learn the fundamentals because of his freakish athleticism.

    Roy's fight game is what i call "fool goal" lol because he was such a athletic phenom and relied on it so much, he never had to learn the basics like how to roll with punches, clinch, set things up properly with sound fundamentals like a proper jab etc.

    Roy use to bait you in the corner and then bail himself out with lead hooks anchored from the hips, once his reflexes left him all he could do was put the ear muffs on and go into a Winky type of defence which wasn't quite Wright, lol and go to the ropes to hide the movement he no longer had, this meant he was gonna be a sitting duck for pressure fighters as he had no legs and struggle in fights where the fundamentals where key.

    The fighter we knew as Roy Jones was last spotted in the Ruiz fight. Coming back down from heavyweight as quickly as he did and stripping all that muscle at an advanced age in a matter of months brought on his demise much quicker, although it was always gonna be dramatic as reflexes and speed are the first things to leave a fighter.

    Roy's prime was always gonna be more spectacular due to his physical gifts, but fighters with sound fundamentals like Hopkins and Toney who he beat can fight until they are 50 without getting starched. What made Roy great also made him not so great as he got older.
     
  5. TheUzi

    TheUzi MISSION INCOMPLETE Full Member

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    Could the same be said of the Prince???

    Must've been horrible for Jones later in his career, knowing the talents he once had were long gone, having to fight and grind it out like a normal fighter. I think it made him a better person tho...his later interviews were pretty moving and he seemed a total different person.

    He did make me laugh when winding up Hopkins mind you.

    ''60/40 and I'll kick that ass''
     
  6. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Good parallel with Naz, although he had a mule kick for him and smoke and mirrors switch hitting rather then freak athleticism.

    "60/40 and I'll whoop dat ass" classic! and was there ever a better line? But for his part, Bernard said that he was gonna strangle Roy's roosters on his pig farm!! LOL!

    Roy was such a sight to behold in his prime and it's difficult to argue anyone in history beating him at super middle or even light heavy...wasn't he just great to watch though? How many times would Roy stick out his tongue and do that stupid little glove-to-shoe tap? How many times would he pound his stomach and signal the opponent to meet him in the corner, lol? And how many times would he do the twinkle toe dance back to his corner following a successful round? the ultimate showman! Got to love RJJ! A country guy from the Dirty Dirty south who still busted moves from the early 90's (shout out to Kid-n-Play), lol!

    Btw, what about this for our version of the four kings...Calzaghe, Hopkins, Toney and Jones. Just a pity they didn't all get it on at the right time like the original four kings. In looking at Roy for a top candidate for the 4 Kings though...don't forget about the ending he gave Vinny Paz! There will never NEVER be a more plethora of combinations in the history of boxing then that kitchen sink, violent finish! But after Calzaghe cleaned out super middle and the 20 defenses at middlweight plus the Tarver and Pavlik destruction, maybe Bernard and Joe C Wales deserve the nod ahead of him...maybe, lol!
     
  7. TheUzi

    TheUzi MISSION INCOMPLETE Full Member

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    The Four Kings...

    Four supreme pugilists. Something in there for everyone....

    You'd have to hand Jones the top spot as he's actually beaten two of the guys
    (yes so has Joe but...well come on).

    2nd-Bernard for me. He administered the beating that JC should've given to Pavlik. As old school as it gets

    3rd/4th is a close call but JC just edges out Toney for me. I love Toneys style in the ring, a real technician but JC is very much under rated IMO. Great boxing brain and the way he protected his hands by changing his whole approach to the game is something Ive always respected him for. Also the fact Toney was caught using banned substances(for a fight) has swayed my choice.
     
  8. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Yep, thats how i would go as well.

    Jones
    Hopkins
    Calzaghe
    Toney

    Wouldn't argue if anyone put Hopkins number 1 in the list of those four horsemen.

    Being a Roy Jones fan it was hard to come to terms with his deficiencies, The Jones vs. Calzaghe fight was so weird for me because I've always been a nervous wreck when Roy and Joe fought. And I did get a little of that anxious moment when Roy dropped Joe in the first; but something happened after about round 3 in that and I knew I was watching the end of an era because raw, video game Athleticism doesn't age like fine wine..but also how brilliant Joe has mastered that angle in and out and gone like the boogy man. So happy because i knew Joe would finally call it a day after gracing the mecca and let his legend and respect grow!

    Is Roy still fighting on btw? It's sad because we've seen this before, the names change but the game is the same. I honestly hope RJJ calls it a day because he could get hurt, his camp and trainer, Coach Merk, has always been a puppet on a string. I hope that Roy get's his licensed revoked because I don't want to see someone else take his head off, which isn't a good look for a 40 year old with amateur chief puppets. Leave it alone Roy as we can't afford another Meldrick Taylor or your mate G-Man.
     
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    I agree TFFP, Durans all-round game means he's better suited to beat Floyd than JC Chavez IMO.

    Beeston, Hatton did have very fast feet; I'd still make Chavez at least a 50-50 with Floyd :lol:
     
  10. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    The Amateurish habit of the "Bow n Arrow"

    I've seen a few fighters do this most noticeabily Jermaine Taylor and Carl Froch. It's this habit of pulling your right hand back sometimes so far back that it goes behind your head at the same time as throwing your Jab. The "bow & arrow" is a major flaw in Taylor. I can visually picture him doing this in every single 1 of his fights, especially in the 2 Hopkins encounters. Don't know where the hell he picked that up, probably in the Little Rock elementary schoolyard lol, but this is definitely an amateurish flaw as it leaves fighters wide open for counters especially from a southpaw.

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  11. sg85

    sg85 Bang on the chan Full Member

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    I also think there was a sparkle in his fight vs. Lacy - although not the greatest of opponents in all honesty.

    Props to the threadstarter by the way. :thumbsup
     
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Have B-Hop at no.1 myself (could change my mind in a Minute, between Hop and Roy it's what you like) but Id have Toney above Calzaghe WITHOUT A DOUBT.
     
  13. Korean Hawk

    Korean Hawk Member Full Member

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  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Korean Hawk: great name, sadly you've stolen my old avi :lol: :good

    Great to see someone who appreciates one of the most formidable fighters of all time :good
     
  15. Korean Hawk

    Korean Hawk Member Full Member

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    :lol::lol:

    What you on about? You 'referred' me to this site.