Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Feb 5, 2022.
I think the fix was in against golota from the great John Ruiz. Don King had jawny dipped in his back pocket, the most protected Latino heavyweight of all time; physically by Norman stone, and financially by Don King. He seemed to always get great fights even if he lost... Golota put him through havoc that night. Ruiz was KD,d punched in the ground, trainer thrown out, rabbit punched against. Andrew hit him with everything except for the stool. I'm pretty sure King had jawnys life secure in the final scores reflecting the judges. It's a shame golota had to lose to: Byrd, Ruiz. What's next Lennox? Come up short 3 times maybe for the championship of the world?
I think Joe quit, not because it was fixed, but because he was seriously hurt. I've debated this with people who think he wasn't hurt, and that he was acting. He was absolutely hurt, I doubt he was a good enough actor to fake being stiff-legged like that when he got up. I guess he got caught with a good shot, but the only angle I've seen it from it's hard to tell cause Rocky's back is to the camera - anyone seen it from another angle?
We’ll never know for sure - sometimes a genuinely decent punch doesn’t translate in the viewing - including said punches being obscured by genuinely bad angles - unfortunately I haven’t seen any another angles for Rocky’s punch - the uppercut.
Also, given Walcott’s uniquely extended viability (amazing and courageous performance in the first fight), though he still looked the part for the rematch, he was on borrowed time in so far as his age finally catching up to him and kicking in…maybe that’s part of what we saw go down also.
Like Ali vs Liston 2, there’s the double barrelled contentions -1) was the punch legit enough to put them down in the first place? and 2) was the punch legit enough to keep them down?
Interestingly, there is a much less oft seen side angle view (from the orig television broadcast I believe) of Ali dropping the counter right (anchor punch) that floored Liston - the angle I’m talking about shows just how insanely fast Ali’s right hand was and the solid connection to Liston’s head is unmistakable.
Yeah what a performance in the first fight! I think, in the 2nd, that Walcott realized he wasn't going to be able to get out of the way of punches. It's understandable at his age, particularly with a guy like Marciano. Joe Louis said fighting Rocky was hell, hard to blame JJW.
Sometimes some fans can be too judgmental and very much in contradiction to how they live their own life - the boxing game is like no other sport.
Not to say 100% that JJW quit pre med or at least quit after the fact of a legit KD - but personally, who gives a f**k, the man had already well and truly paid his dues above and beyond in an all time classic fight the first time around.
However much fans pay to watch, it’s NEVER enough to expect a fighter to put his own health and life on the line unconditionally.
We’ve long since moved on from the gladiatorial, thumbs down days..at least I’d like to think so, LOL.
Agree 100%, well said!
There is no doubt that Walcott falsely awarded the fight to Ali. Watch the film and you will see it. Walcott never started a count on Liston because Ali would not go to a neutral corner. He declared him the loser because he was down more than 10 seconds. Liston could have legitimately have stayed down until the bell rang if he had wanted to. It was not a mistake on Walcott's part. He had fought for over 20 years and he had to know about neutral corners. Walcott's actions showed that HE was rigging the fight.
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Definitely is a strong word.
Use it sparingly.
I place a question mark over a lot of fights, but I want to se an irregular betting pattern, or a testimony under oath, before I say that this fight was probably fixed.
Even then you keep an open mind.
No argument here but a friendly debate is fine with me.
Resnick had a deal with Magids to fix the fight for the 7th round then last second on the day of the fight Resnik called off the deal with Barnett Magdis . After Liston took the dive Resnick paid the newspaper to print he lost a fortune, which the News paper did print. Shortly after it is revealed Resnick and Liston made 1mil betting against themselves.
These are facts.
I definitely agree with you there,John. Liston probably did bottle it but there is no real evidence of a fix. Hope you're keeping well,mate.
I think the first fightwas his last hurrah. He was near 40 and had travelled a rough road.