Definitely, would Tyson with Rooney till the end of his career entered the 3 best HWs ever?

Mike Tyson seems to inspire a whole lot of "if's"

"if" Cus had lived ten years longer, "if" he stayed with Rooney, "if" he didn't marry Givens, "if" he didn't sign with King, "if" he didn't heavily abuse cocaine, "if" he didn't go to jail....

STOP.

Stop now, stop forever.

Cus raised Tyson constantly telling him he'd be the youngest champion, that he'd have money and fame if he remained disciplined and continued to win. Well, he did.

Tyson won everything and at that point NOTHING was going to stop Mike from partying and doing the things he had denied himself since he was thirteen years old.

Besides it's not like Tyson wasn't going off the rails before Rooney left or before he married Givens. Even as a teenager he would sneak back to Brownsville from the home where he lived with Cus and Mike would commit crimes. (His own words from his Biography Monster)

Tyson would skip out on training with Rooney while a pro and admitted that he beat some guys off their fear alone.

Most of Tysons problems were kept out of the press because Jimmy Jacobs and Bill Cayton were looking out for him and knew how to handle that sort of thing but that doesn't mean they weren't there.

 

Nope. He'd still be married to that flawed Peek-A-Boo style which requires way too much energy to sustain. He never had a long shelf life, except for his punching power. There's a damn good reason that only like 2 Peek-A-Boo fighters made it and we have not seen one since.

The ideal scenario (assuming he could get his head together and live a more disciplined life) would have been for him to ditch Rooney and hook up with someone who could teach him a more fundamentally sound style that would have been just as effective due to his fast hands and power, and would have made him be able to relax more.

 

But what do you do with a 5’10” heavyweight who has a 71” reach? What style can deal with the reach disadvantage he constantly faced? It’s not like you can send him out there to fight off his jab.

 

Ill be the first to say that Tyson had no shortage of cringe moments but even still Tyson has an incredible and inspiring life story regardless of his flaws.

 

That’s a FINE post.

Even when he was still alive, Cus was losing his grip on Iron Mike.

But here’s the most important thing - at least in my mind.

Even IF all desired variables remained in place and lent to greater elevation and duration to Mike’s career - to be equitable, you would then have to play “What IF” with every other fighter (including Mike’s opponents) who didn’t necessarily enjoy anywhere near the breaks and support that Mike did throughout their own careers.

As it was, Mike arguably enjoyed the most due care of any fighter - due care that should’ve lent itself to Mike ultimately becoming his own independent and disciplined operator (to a certain degree) at some point.

The “What IFs” very much anchor themselves in Mike being molly coddled 24/7 for his whole career - which is neither practical or realistic - and still highly speculative in so far as predicting better outcomes for Mike. .

 

If Tyson had stayed with Rooney, considering their interpersonal dynamic...it essentially would not be the Tyson that actually existed. There isn't really an 'if' because of that. They were not going to get along and it would not have had this effect people suspect to keep Tyson on point in some magically holistic and homeostatic way. Tyson was a mess. It would've had to be a damn near magical force that Rooney would have had to be in his life. It's not just going to be that. I don't think people understand this thing that happens when some alpha kind of guy gets rich and famous and off the rails, full of himself, that there's no leash that works on those kinds of dogs, unless it's been forged by troll magic.

Look at how Tommy Morrison's life played out and realize it was a lesser version of fame and fortune and success than Tyson had, and it was pure lunacy and no matter who was or wasn't around him, it wasn't going to spin itself into some disciplined, purposeful, focused lifestyle that made him thrive to the end. Crazy begets crazy. And these guys who are often judged as being weak in some way, maybe "heart" or "grit" or "character" are actually very strong personalities that will butt heads with anyone and unless the other guy is Holyfield, they usually have the upper hand. Especially when they've honed their circle down to people who are there to tell them they're not just in charge but in-the-right, to reinforce their bullheadedness.

 

The problem was never leaving Rooney. He just started partying way harder around the same time he fired him. The guy would’ve self destructed no matter who was in his corner.

 

Like many no doubt, Tyson was my favourite boxer for a long time. But it is what it is.
Ike Ibeabuchi could have been in the top 10, best case scenario. But that isn't the case.

Multifaceted discipline is part of sport, it's part of the reason Usyk may well leave a greater legacy than Fury.

Injuries or uncontrollable circumstances such as the restrictions on Cubans and the like, are really the only factors
which are really valid to offer 'what if' hypotheticals IMO.

 

Its always hypothetical with Mike.

What's to say he wouldn't have married Givens, and ended up with someone a lot worse?
We are assuming that he would have been perfect every fight, we don't assume that with anyone else. Look at Floyd, the consummate professional and even he had fights where he weren't perfect.

Tyson is my all time favourite, but this needs to stop.