Dempsey and Tunney naming heavyweights who'd beat Jack Johnson

Combination punching was a common technique taught for decades prior to Johnsons time. It did not appear magically in 1919.

Johnsons style was to smother an offense limiting greatly an opponents ability to throw and land punches.

 

All the video of the day shows rudimentary at best fighting techniques and combos were very telegraphed, bad footwork and overrated technical skills.....Dempsey, Tunney and so on were much better at it....fighters are notoriously jealous of other fighters coinciding with their competitive spirits....most champions struggle to give credit to successive champions and always seem to credit to previous champs.....especially if they beat them or are rated higher

 

JOHN L. HORGAN, Miami
New Terrace Plaza Hotel proprietor
"I sang with old John L. Sullivan's revue."

This fact doesn't make him a boxing expert, but he probably did see John L fight. At least
in a bar.

 

Sorry, I don't see the relevance of this.

 

Ill drink to that
Lets go yankees !!!!!

 

I agree that Tunney and Corbett would have out boxed Johnson, who was a better in-fighter than out fighter, and not very active. Neither Corbett or Tunney was a 5'9" type who would fall into a clinch where Johnson was at his best.

Jeffries in his prime would have beaten Johnson too.

I'd favor Dempsey over Johnson, but not by much as he was a bit of a front runner and not quite as dangerous as the rounds went on.

Fitz vs Johnson could have gone either way.

I tend to think Johnson decisions Sullivan and Slavin, but I never saw either in action in the ring. Sullivan's resume to me is rather weak, and he admitted the game changed greatly by the time Jeffries was the champion.

 

Louis54 said he enjoyed the opinion of someone who saw Sullivan (fight), you
said "and that would be?" and I copied and pasted the reference from the article.
Maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

 

These guys contradicted themselves all the time in these kind of newspaper pieces.
They forget from one minute to the next what they've said.
Either that, or even more likely, newspaper men just wrote what they liked.

 

Johnson would've roughed up Tunney something fierce imo

 

He says he probably did see him fight which is it yes or no?

 

Corbett's wins over which heavyweights lead you to this conclusion?
Ditto Tunney?

 

Fleischer watched Johnson from ringside in his prime and knew Jeffries personally. He rated Johnson as the best ever. Better than Louis better than Dempsey better than Jeffries. Jeffries himself stated even at his best he could not have hit Johnson in a million years. Johnson was the far superior technical talent and in a skill sport this is something to heavily consider.

I always ponder a Tunney Johnson fight. Tunney should never be undersold. Technically outstanding, superbly conditioned, superb tactician, smart, tough. If Tunney could stay at distance and box he has an excellent chance against anyone. I don't see anyone escaping the inside game of Johnson however.

 

I'd favor in a three bout series Johnson over Tunney by the very slightest of margins. certainly if Tunney were to win , not exactly a huge upset

 

Corbett won more rounds over Peter Jackson according to to the detailed round by round write up I read. As you like to ask who saw both Corbett and Johnson in the ring! The authority here is Geroge Siler, famous referee and author who was the 3rd man for both of them a few times, and an observer in the crowd.

In his book inside facts of Pugilism, he clearly states that Jackson was the better of the two by long odds.

Now I ask you who saw them both in the ring who said Johnson was the better?

Jackson hits harder than Johnson yet he could not stop Corbett. Corbett also holds a win over Joe Choysnki, who of course knocked Johnsson out in 3 rounds.

The best fighters Johnson fought who resembles Corbett was Jack O'Brien, who many felt was the better of the two in the 6 round affair! And O'Brien was at the end of his career and was Johnson in his absolute prime when it happened. No one thinks O'Brien was better than Corbett at heavyweight.

But it's not who they beat, but also how they match up. Corbett has quicker feet, is more active, throws more combinations and straighter punches.

Johnson who was not aggressive or very active by nature ( Unless his opponent was hurt or gassed ) would need to change things up here, and he was at his best in the clinches. Corbett wasn't some 5'7 to 5'9" heavyweight who swung wild and fell into a clinch, where Johnson was at his best. He was a boxer mover.

Those who beat Corbett had a lot of power, or a very aggressive swarming style, Johnson had neither!

So for me, Corbett UD over Johnson and I think Tunney is better than Corbett and beat 7 men who made the hall of fame, and unlike Johnson caught his best when they were closer to their primes.

Tunney has 6 wins over HOF's T. Gibbons, J. Dempsey(twice), H. Greb, Carpentier, and Lewinsky. His possible 6th is a Newspaper decision against Loughran. The New York Times gave him the win. But the fight was in philly the hometown of Loughran and the local philly paper gave it to Loughran making it essentially a draw. But if you count the NYT newspaper decision than Tunney has 6. If Risko gets in the hall of fame ( is he? ) that would be 7. When watching film, Tunney looks much better than Johnson.