Dempsey and Tunney naming heavyweights who'd beat Jack Johnson

In a six round fight Obrien, Or any fast moving boxer would do well against just about anyone. Six rounds however is not 15 rounds and results could be quite different.

Johnson was rated and by some still is rated among the best ever by experts. Corbetts level of greatness has never eclipsed that of Johnson.

 

I asked for the wins of Corbett that lead you to conclude he outboxes Johnson you provided NONE.
Jackson went into the Corbett fight with an ankle injury.
Show where Corbett won more rounds , after halfway it was a sleep walking contest!
"In the first six rounds Jackson had the best of it. From the sixth to the twenty-fifth the men fought fairly well, honors being easy, with Jackson showing less distress than Corbett. The latter was game and fought strongly, but it was plain that he was not such a seasoned slugger as Jackson. In the twenty-fifth round, in a rushing rally, Corbett punished Jackson with heavy body blows, and thereafter the black showed no eagerness for close work. It was not known until after the mill, however, that Jackson's ribs were broken, and that Corbett was also badly injured. The fight from the twenty-fifth to the sixty-first round was simply a standoff, no hard work being done. At the close of the sixty-first round the fight was stopped by the referee. The men were unfit to fight longer, and both were willing to stop."


Corbett would never risk his title against a then past prime Jackson ,he ducked him. Corbett was beaten up by crude Tom Sharkey whom Johnson, as a novice out boxed and embarrassed!

Corbett has as his signature win, a late ko over a fat alcoholic ,33years and11 months old Sullivan who had been out of the ring for nearly 5 years! His resume is one of the weakest of all heavyweight champions!

Choynsky was a 20 years old novice!
Corbett was the boxing instructor of the SF AC and was vastly more experienced in ring craft .
The Johnson v O Brien fight was a 6 rds no dec it proves nothing.
There was zero demand for a rematch!
Tunneys heavyweight signature wins are over a past prime champion coming out of 3 years inactivity and a controversial repeat where he was lucky he wasn't ko'd.

F*ck the HOF ! His other wins are over light heavies and super middles!

 

As usual, your post has errors.

Sullivan was 33 for the fight, not 34 as you mention.

I would say both of Corbett's wins over Slavin or Mitchell were impressive results.

I told you a man who saw both Jackson and Johnson as the ref and a ring side observer felt Jackson was better and Corbett drew with him. This means something.

Sorry to correct you again ( Okay not really : ) But Jackson mobility was not an issue in the fight and was mentioned as such. His ankle was fine as his fall was 2 weeks before.

Do not try to dismiss the O'Brien vs. Johnson 6 round match meant nothing! HAHAHA, many felt O'Brien at the end of his career was the better and his style in some ways mirrors Corbett, except Corbett, was bigger, high harder, longer, took a better punch, etc...

Corbett also had a better jab a punch O'Brien easily landed on Johnson, and when you see his mostly stationary style and low guard you can deduce why.

It is very condensing of you to attempt to rip Tunney's competition as he owned your boy Jack Dempsey. I'll that that Jack Dempsey over any of the 5'7 to 5'9" guys Johnson fought for title defenses, wouldn't you? And most of the others weak picks too! Ross a joke. Battling Jim had a Journeyman's record. One stung Johnson with the only punch he landed the other drew and possibly deserved the decision! Can you read and comprehend? Try saying what I wrote is it not so so, other then going off tangent which is your usual MO. Hint-hint. you can't :

I'd also take Greb and Loughran over the entire lot of Johnson's title defenses, save Jess Willard who KO'd Johnson.

Now Mr. Ducker, can you tell me one person who saw both Corbett and Johnson in the ring who felt Johnson was the better?

I have already shown you Corbett beat a man who KO'd Johnson in Choynski and drew with a man who saw both Jackson and Johnson who felt Jackson was the better by a good margin.

 

In my humble opinion, I believe Johnson would have done them all. Too smart. Too elusive. Maybe Sullivan would have been too hard for him, too brutally savage. I really doubt it, but I guess we have less evidence of that than anything. But of all of those match-ups, I would love to have seen Johnson vs Dempsey. If only.

 

Fleischer although he rated Corbett in his top ten put him well below Johnson. Johnson No 1 and Corbett 5th.

 

Didn't say anything about seeing him fight; only that he was old enough to sing with him!
Both drunk, I assume.

 

Yeah , I was a month out, Sullivan was 33 and 11 months old.

Errors? Corbett never fought Slavin! lol

George Siler also said ,"Johnson hadn't a thimbleful of victuals in his stomach when he fought Klondike but fought well flooring Klondike, until his strength ran out".You tried to say Johnson quit remember?
If you believe Siler in regards to Jackson , you must believe his other comments,you can't have it both ways!


I've posted the break down of the fight if anything it shows Jackson had the better of the encounter!
O Brien didn't easily land anything on Johnson,he was on the floor twice and marked up at the end, stop with the lying!
Condensing?? Christ you make so many errors and omissions, it's hard to decipher your pathetic efforts at the English language.
Battling Jim Johnson drew with Jeannette and Langford, if he is a journeyman so are they!
Mitchell was 5'9" and 165lbs when he fought Corbett! He is Corbett's second best scalp!

George Siler said Mitchell's training for Corbett went all wrong and he lost too much weight"he entered the ring well within the middleweight limit".

Corbett was ko'd with ONE PUNCH by a man weighing157lbs!!!



Now can you tell me

ONE BOXING EXPERT WHO RATES TUNNEY OR CORBETT OVER JOHNSON???

Corbett beat a novice Choynsky who was 20 years old ,with 3 fights under his belt, at that time Corbett was the instructor at the SF AC and was boxing every night.
Ill be waiting for you to provide the list of boxing experts who rate Corbett or Tunney above Johnson.
Don't take too long RainMan ,I'm not going anywhere!

 

Probably not.

However, I think a lot of criticism flung at the pre-20s/30s/40s hws is based on comparing them directly to modern fighters without taking into account that boxing was practically a different sport. The longer fights (just look at the effect the change from 15 to 12 had), the different rules and smaller gloves of course had a huge impact on how these men approached and understood boxing.
Does Jack Johnson look rather crude compared to the fighters of today who are called skilled? Yeah, quite a bit. And he probably would be picked apart by most decent hws/cws of today if he would just been thrown in with today's fighters and no adjustment period. But I think the opposite is also true. If Johnson would see a video of a fight of the modern hws he would find a lot of things they do wrong and he would laugh at. Throw in Joshua with Johnson under Johnson's conditions and rules and Jack would chew him up and spit him out.
Boxing then and now is very difficult to compare that's why I don't think h2h matchups between fighters of then and later periods make sense. I don't think the old timers are any better or worse than today's fighters. Just different.

Back to the combination punching. The old timers new exactly how to throw combinations. However, they rarely did because it means spending more energy. And in fights that can go 20, 30 rounds this might be decisive. So, one punch at a time it was - mostly. And of course if you don't do a thing as often as someone who does it constantly you will be worse at it. Simple logic. On the other hand, that doesn't mean a fighter of the calibre of Jack Johnson wouldn't pick up on how to adjust quickly. That's my take on it at least.

 

Anyone who really and critically examines Johnsons abilities and calls those abilities crude needs to take another hard look. Johnson was known for his unparalleled abilities to feint, block and parry which are the key parameters of a great defense. Balance and stance. He also had a wonderful left jab.

 

[QUOTE="mcvey, post: 18759236, member: 7828"

F*ck the HOF ! His other wins are over light heavies and super middles![/QUOTE]

Sounds a bit like Jack Johnson, except he was KO'd ( By Choysnki ), perhaps out boxed by ( O'Brien ) in a 6 round match, and floored in another match ( Ketchel ) vs " super middles "

If I were you I'd stop your double standards, they do not work. Your like a won out punching bag in this department that keeps taking it, and taking it....

Also if you are a big Dempsey fan as you claim to be, you might say the Dempsey that Tunney defeated could have beaten ALL of Burns and Johnson's title opponents.

 

I place a lot more weight on Dempsey's testimony than Tunney's.

My impression of them is that Tunney was a self publicist, while Dempsey tended to give an honest opinion, even if it did not place him in a favorable light.

Obviously he did not see some of the early heavyweights fight, and would have been going on second hand testimony like us.

One fighter who did see everybody from Sullivan through to Tunney, was Jack McAuliffe.

I don't think that any fighter would have been good enough to surpass Sullivan in his eyes, but he always ranted Tunney as second only to Sullivan.

 

Sounds a bit like Jack Johnson, except he was KO'd ( By Choysnki ), perhaps out boxed by ( O'Brien ) in a 6 round match, and floored in another match ( Ketchel ) vs " super middles "

If I were you I'd stop your double standards, they do not work.[/QUOTE]

Pollack states that Choynsky and Johnson were about the same weight when they fought!
Johnsons defences were against the heaviest challengers up until Joe Louis' reign you dumb f*ck!

Want to talk about defending against smaller men? Look no further than your vanilla idol Jim Jeffries!
Double standards? You epitomise the expression!

 

My problem with Tunney :

1. He says a trained heavyweight boxer would beat a gorilla.

2. He was a stuck up racist twat.

 

He was something worse than that to be honest.

He was a fighter who took a two pronged approach to legacy, building it in the ring on the one hand, and rewriting history outside the ring on the other.

Historians have spent years trying to undo the mischief he wrought.

 

There is no doubt Tunney could be racy, favor Irish boxers and as an erudite type can come across as stuck up.

But he was a very tough and excellent boxer with an outstanding record. Under rated in many ways. Even Ali who really went out of his way to degrade old timers on film came away impressed with Tunney.

I read Gene once fought a Bear, he hit the bear with a body shot, and to his point, the Bear ran away and quit. Can anyone confirm this? I never saw any boxer attempt to mess with a gorilla. Those animals are super strong, and aggressive when provoked.